Ep.87: Restoration of the Schooner L.A. DUNTON

[00:00:25] Welcome back to Around the Buoy, broadcasting from the East Passage Boat Ride Studios. I'm

[00:00:30] Carter Richardson and I'm here with Tyler Fields of Tyler Fields photography. Tyler,

[00:00:36] greetings a mid-May greetings to you my friend. Well, I mean it's, it's we're in it man.

[00:00:43] Springs here. My allergies are going nuts. The red socks are barely five, not even 500

[00:00:48] at this point. We're right on track. This is like, this is like the talking heads

[00:00:53] that same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Yeah. Yeah. But now that

[00:00:59] you find yourself kind of out of the, can you believe that I wasn't aware of the talking

[00:01:03] heads until like two years ago? I truly that that does not make sense. Tyler,

[00:01:09] that was a life changing event for me when I, when I realized who they were and how

[00:01:13] much I enjoy their music. And another one, Huey Lewis in the news. Oh, shut the front

[00:01:18] door dude. I'm telling you, other than back to the future as of like two days ago, I became

[00:01:26] a huge Huey Lewis in the news van.

[00:01:28] All right. So we're going to jump in the way back machine, Tyler Huey Lewis in the

[00:01:31] news. They were on their sports tour. I've, I, this is somewhere in the early 80s, but

[00:01:37] in the old veterans Memorial Coliseum, the Madhouse on McDowell where the Phoenix

[00:01:44] Suns played. That's where I saw my first concert with Lord Dingman, the Huey Lewis

[00:01:49] in the news. And I'm telling you Lord Dingman, Lord Dingman. Yes. Let's not make

[00:01:55] maybe Laura as a listener. So let's not, let's not make fun of her Laura or Lord

[00:02:02] Laura with an A. I don't know if that makes it any better.

[00:02:06] But I Huey Lewis and then they came in actually played here in Newport on base at

[00:02:15] the Naval War College. They used to do an end of the summer concert. And back in the

[00:02:20] day, like 10, 15 years ago, they would bring in actual acts. I want to say like the

[00:02:25] pretenders came, but Huey Lewis came and hit after hit after hit after it. The

[00:02:35] concert was nothing but amazing music. Yeah. I can't say anything bad about them.

[00:02:41] No, why would you want to do the sports album? The four album is unbelievable

[00:02:48] packed with hits. It's so good. God, man. I did not expect the podcast to start

[00:02:54] out this way. The best ones never do.

[00:02:59] One of my favorite things in springtime, you know, a ton of painting and

[00:03:03] varnishing happens. And so what's great about that is that for the most part,

[00:03:09] it's just sanding a boat or sanding a trance or whatever. You don't really have

[00:03:12] to think all that much and so you can listen to stuff. So I use it as a really

[00:03:17] good tool to catch up like read books we've talked about in the past, but

[00:03:20] also to catch up on podcasts and a friend of ours, a gentleman named Skip

[00:03:27] Matos. He reached out to me, Tyler, and he let me know that not only is he

[00:03:33] listening, but he is binge listening as he's getting his boat ready for the

[00:03:38] water. Like what do you mean by binge listening? Like sorry, he's been he's

[00:03:43] binge listening to around the buoy. No, no, no, I understand that. But like

[00:03:47] what does that mean? Is just like from the last episode when he's going

[00:03:50] back, like no, he started at episode one way back in 2017. But this is pre

[00:03:57] Tyler. This is hardly before this is like when I didn't even know you, Tyler.

[00:04:01] And with Helena and then he's making his way up to current day.

[00:04:09] So I think he said he's on single handed sailor. I can't remember which

[00:04:13] one that is, but he's been he's been working late at night because I mean

[00:04:18] he has a real job and so he goes to the boat at night and works on the boat

[00:04:21] at night. So he's been listening to a ton of around the buoy and Skip,

[00:04:26] we appreciate you. You might be listening to this and it's now fall and

[00:04:31] you're getting the boat. He's got some catching up to maybe like next spring

[00:04:34] he might listen to this one.

[00:04:37] He might be a year.

[00:04:41] Yeah, I know he's involved in a few different boats, but he has one

[00:04:47] of the boats that I daydream about constantly. He's got a Seaway 21 with

[00:04:52] this perfect little Dodger on the front. It's such a cool boat.

[00:04:57] It'd be a good photo boat, Tyler.

[00:04:58] That's what I'm saying.

[00:05:00] Maybe you should talk to Skip.

[00:05:03] Well, when he listens to this in spring of 2025, we can have a conversation.

[00:05:07] Yeah, give Tyler a call. Give Tyler a call.

[00:05:11] Well, speaking of boats, I know I think it might have been the last

[00:05:15] episode. We kind of got into this bad rut of mentioning cruise ships about

[00:05:21] every episode and none of the stories were good.

[00:05:25] Yeah, I think we actually ditched a couple of our news stories because it

[00:05:29] was just more cruising crap. More people throwing up or ignore virus.

[00:05:34] I think that this one was just too good to pass up.

[00:05:38] So we're going to mention it, but I don't know how to characterize it

[00:05:42] between is this a good story or a bad story?

[00:05:45] Well, I think we might have to wait for our news topics to discuss and let

[00:05:50] let the listeners decide if it's a good story or a bad story.

[00:05:53] I mean, you've already signed up for it, right?

[00:05:57] I don't have the cash or that kind of course.

[00:06:00] I mean, I guess you could you could do the cruise math and you could

[00:06:04] justify the cost of the ticket because of all the money you're saving on close.

[00:06:10] There you go. A little teaser, if you will.

[00:06:13] And so along with more cruise ship news, we do have yet another update

[00:06:17] on our friend Charlotte the Ray, the Manta Ray or whatever that thing is.

[00:06:22] I got to tell you, Charlotte, I got to tell you, Charlotte, I got to tell you,

[00:06:25] Tyler, you don't know Charlotte could be listening to when we first

[00:06:30] talk about Charlotte and this goes back to I think the Sarah Stone episode.

[00:06:34] So like just three episodes ago, about three, two and a half months ago.

[00:06:38] There's no way in Hades.

[00:06:39] I thought that this story would have a run of three episodes.

[00:06:45] Well, it's what it does.

[00:06:47] It's just a gift that keeps on given.

[00:06:49] This is our Frenchman barrel again.

[00:06:53] It's a gift that keeps on given, but nothing's happening.

[00:06:56] There again, no update and the natives are getting restless.

[00:07:01] We're about to go Frankenstein with pitchforks and Tiki torches.

[00:07:05] I don't, I don't mean to.

[00:07:08] I don't mean to be boastful, but I kind of called BS on this the first time around.

[00:07:14] And I have so far I seem to be seem to be on the right track.

[00:07:18] Well, we'll see if there's any scientific reason for all of this happening

[00:07:23] before we get to those news topics, we're going to sit down and talk to

[00:07:27] Walt Ansel. Many of you might recognize the name or the either friend

[00:07:31] of the podcast or a follower of East passage would know Walt Ansel as he is

[00:07:37] the designer of the East passage 24, but you might not know that he is also

[00:07:42] the director of the Henry B. DuPont preservation shipyard at Mystic Seaport.

[00:07:47] And the shipyard has been one of the busiest places on the East coast

[00:07:53] for many, for many reasons, because one, they can only handle.

[00:07:58] They're one of the few places that can handle massive restorations

[00:08:02] ships like the Mayflower, the Whaling Ship Morgan.

[00:08:06] And they've just started, I'd say, within the last like seven or eight months.

[00:08:11] They just started a restoration of a fishing scooner called the L.A.

[00:08:14] Dutton and we're going to be sitting down to talk to him about the history

[00:08:17] of the boat, the history of fishing scooners.

[00:08:21] It's a fascinating talk.

[00:08:23] It's I mean, it has everything that that I know you and I love.

[00:08:26] We've got wooden boats, scooners, history, commercial fishing.

[00:08:31] I mean, it's it's got it all.

[00:08:34] If he only would break out into a sea shanty, I think we would really

[00:08:39] satisfy the listeners.

[00:08:41] I mean, as much as I am a fan of maritime history and just nautical culture,

[00:08:48] I'm just going to have to stop at sea shanties.

[00:08:51] Huzzah.

[00:08:53] We'll be right back with Walt after this short break.

[00:09:17] New England is full of living museums that transport you back to a different era

[00:09:21] to get a sense of what life was like hundreds of years ago.

[00:09:24] Places like Sturbridge Village, Plymouth's Plantation and Mystic Seaport

[00:09:28] are practically a requirement for all school age kids in the Northeast

[00:09:32] to visit at some point.

[00:09:33] But what separates Mystic from the rest of this group is that the Seaport

[00:09:36] is also an active working museum dedicated to restoring

[00:09:40] and caring for the mighty wooden ships that were the backbone of ocean going

[00:09:44] trade and commerce in the 19th century.

[00:09:46] With no exaggeration, it's fair to say that there is a ton of stuff going on

[00:09:50] at the Seaport right now.

[00:09:52] And one of the restoration projects that is in the beginning stages

[00:09:55] is the fishing schooner, L.A.

[00:09:57] Dutton, and we are joined by the director of the Henry B.

[00:10:00] DuPont Preservation Shipyard, Walt Ansel, to discuss the Seaport's

[00:10:04] latest undertaking.

[00:10:05] Walt, welcome to Around the Bowie and thanks for coming on the show.

[00:10:08] Hey, Carter, Tyler.

[00:10:09] It's with great pleasure to talk to you about the Dutton.

[00:10:14] Thank you. Fantastic.

[00:10:16] Well, we'll start.

[00:10:17] I mean, so tell us about the Dutton, her origins.

[00:10:21] What was she originally built for?

[00:10:23] Who designed her? Where was she built?

[00:10:26] Well, the L.A.

[00:10:27] Dutton was a typical late stage Gloucester fishing schooner.

[00:10:34] She was and by late stage, I kind of mean that

[00:10:38] schooners were fading when she was designed and built

[00:10:41] and trawlers were pretty much filling the place of the

[00:10:47] the long lining that was done out of the Dorees.

[00:10:50] Dutton was basically a mothership, but she was she was built

[00:10:54] in 1921 in Essex, Massachusetts by the story yard, A.D.

[00:11:00] Story and had been designed by Thomas MacManus,

[00:11:05] who was kind of the preeminent classic Gloucester fishing

[00:11:09] schooner designer.

[00:11:11] She was modeled on a vessel named the Joffrey that was built

[00:11:16] seven years before.

[00:11:18] And in 1921, Dutton's sister ship,

[00:11:22] the America was built also.

[00:11:24] So pretty close as a carbon copy as you can get to Dutton.

[00:11:28] What was the fishery that she was kind of designed and purpose built for?

[00:11:32] That's it. That's a great question.

[00:11:34] She was a grand banks Dory trawler, as we call her.

[00:11:39] And she was built for Captain Felix Hogan,

[00:11:44] Newfoundlander transplanted here.

[00:11:47] And he specialized in the summer halibut fishery.

[00:11:51] That was kind of his his expertise.

[00:11:55] And then in the winter time, they would fish for cod and haddock,

[00:12:01] what we kind of generally call ground fish.

[00:12:04] But if you've the area they fished was

[00:12:08] quite a ways from Gloucester and Boston.

[00:12:11] And if you have watched the Perfect Storm or read any of Linda Greenlaw's books,

[00:12:16] this is the grounds that they fished with these Gloucester fishing schooners

[00:12:21] and voyages were anywhere from a month to six weeks long

[00:12:27] and no engines so all under sail.

[00:12:30] Yes, she was built kind of at that turning point

[00:12:33] where marine engines were becoming commonplace.

[00:12:36] And I think she was one of the last boats built in Gloucester,

[00:12:41] at least of this type that didn't have an engine.

[00:12:43] What was the purpose for that?

[00:12:45] Because it was it was available at the time that she was built.

[00:12:48] Well, that was that had to do with racing.

[00:12:51] And Dutton was built with the shaft log

[00:12:54] and an aperture, you know, in her backbone.

[00:12:57] And that was all plugged up basically.

[00:13:00] And they tried racing her for about a year

[00:13:03] and when it was apparent that she didn't have the hull shape or the size.

[00:13:09] You've got to realize that the Canadian schooners were a good 15 feet longer.

[00:13:14] So the smaller vessels in the 120 foot range like L.A.

[00:13:19] Dutton really didn't have a chance to compete.

[00:13:21] And then because of economics and the price of building the schooner,

[00:13:27] they put the diesel engines in them almost right away.

[00:13:30] When they proved not to be successful racers

[00:13:33] and, you know, turn them into working fishermen

[00:13:36] that were basically motor sailors.

[00:13:40] And that was only a couple of years, three or four or five years

[00:13:42] after she was originally built, right?

[00:13:44] I think it was only about a year and a half, to be honest with you.

[00:13:47] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:49] She clearly showed that she didn't have her the chops.

[00:13:53] Well, the interesting thing is if you compare her to Elsie,

[00:13:57] who was McManus's kind of best known smaller racing schooner,

[00:14:03] she actually did try to race against Blue Nose,

[00:14:06] even though she was a lot smaller.

[00:14:08] And she she did for her size relatively well,

[00:14:14] but it was both for both.

[00:14:15] There was no rating.

[00:14:17] And I'm not convinced that the shape of Elsie and Dutton

[00:14:23] are that different.

[00:14:24] So I think a lot of it boils down to the skipper

[00:14:27] and the training of the crew and all that.

[00:14:30] And I don't, I don't have the impression

[00:14:32] that Felix Hogan was a go getter racing skipper.

[00:14:36] He was a safe and very successful fisherman.

[00:14:39] And there's a lot to be said for that.

[00:14:41] I was going to say in the grand scheme of things,

[00:14:43] that seems probably like a better trade off overall.

[00:14:46] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:46] It's really interesting to, you know,

[00:14:49] when you talk about these big schooners

[00:14:51] that they that they did race them,

[00:14:53] it seems really funny that you would have a,

[00:14:56] I mean, I was trying to think of an analogy

[00:14:58] and I've seen, you know, like school bus racing

[00:15:01] where on big dirt tracks where they just race

[00:15:04] a couple of school buses together.

[00:15:05] And that's kind of what I would equate this to.

[00:15:07] It's, is it, is it odd that that's what they did in their off time?

[00:15:11] What about lobster?

[00:15:12] Lobster boat races up in Maine.

[00:15:14] There's a lot of there.

[00:15:15] That's exactly it.

[00:15:16] And so was it odd that that they did this?

[00:15:19] I mean, would they literally just kind of offload

[00:15:22] a whole catch one day and then say,

[00:15:23] Hey, let's go out and race.

[00:15:24] Or would they switch out and put new sales on that kind of stuff?

[00:15:28] Well, it's interesting.

[00:15:29] There there's some national pride involved here too,

[00:15:33] because, you know, the Canadians were very successful at this.

[00:15:37] And advice, as I said, their schooners were larger

[00:15:41] than ours were generally.

[00:15:43] But in the

[00:15:46] in the early 1920s, racing fever kind of gripped

[00:15:51] New England and the Maritimes.

[00:15:53] And the same winter that

[00:15:57] Dutton was built,

[00:16:00] the the Mayflower

[00:16:03] Starling Burgess design was built to race also

[00:16:08] against the Blue Nose, which is also built in 1921.

[00:16:12] So there was a lot going on here.

[00:16:14] But the way it worked is you had to make a voyage under sail,

[00:16:19] fishing on the banks to qualify to race.

[00:16:22] And the Canadians actually disqualified

[00:16:27] Mayflower because she they felt that she was

[00:16:31] a yacht and not a working vessel, even though she had made a trip

[00:16:35] successful trip to the banks.

[00:16:38] A little bit of politics and then there somewhere, huh? Yeah.

[00:16:42] So you mentioned that this was kind of the end of the schooner era.

[00:16:46] But up until then, these were the go to boats.

[00:16:50] I mean, if you were going to go fishing off shore, this this gloss or schooner,

[00:16:54] there was nothing better.

[00:16:56] What was it about these boats that made them that made them so special?

[00:17:00] What was the qualities that made them so ideal for this kind of fishery?

[00:17:06] Boy, that's a.

[00:17:08] That's a that's a hard thing to address and just just a few words.

[00:17:12] But I'll try. I'll take a hack at it.

[00:17:15] Um, you got to realize that the design evolution, Tyler, happened over a long period of time.

[00:17:25] The fisheries on grand banks and Georgia's bank,

[00:17:29] the oldest industry in America.

[00:17:33] You think about it and that, you know, basically fed the young nation.

[00:17:36] So by. Oh, I don't know about 1830.

[00:17:41] We were fishing, Georgia's and I guess there were trips.

[00:17:46] Some trips being made to the grand banks at that point.

[00:17:48] But it was it was a big deal.

[00:17:52] And the losses were pretty horrific.

[00:17:59] So the designs were studied very carefully over the years,

[00:18:03] and they evolved to be safer and safer as time went on.

[00:18:06] But here you take up a vessel with a massive sailing rig

[00:18:11] and inside ballast and then cargo that that varies in in amount.

[00:18:18] So you have a shifting weight constantly.

[00:18:21] So the the design is is tricky and kind of a genius thing

[00:18:27] to be able to achieve to get it to work.

[00:18:30] Um, the the Dunn's.

[00:18:34] Summer rig and which would have been the racing rig.

[00:18:39] I got a few numbers here that are kind of staggering.

[00:18:42] She was 120 feet on deck.

[00:18:45] Load, waterline was 94 feet beam 25, 6 and her draft was 13 to 15 feet,

[00:18:52] depending on cargo and summer racing rig was 8000 square feet.

[00:18:59] And when you think about no winches, all blocks and tackles to handle this

[00:19:06] and a crew of typically 22 to 24 men,

[00:19:13] all working in coordination to raise that main sole and handle it.

[00:19:20] The as I said, maybe mentioned 3500 square foot main sole,

[00:19:24] the main boom was 76 feet long and the main gap 45 feet.

[00:19:31] And this is a and you are on top of the ball on top of the main

[00:19:36] top, Miss, you'd be 118 feet off the water.

[00:19:40] And these aren't modern sail materials.

[00:19:42] This is heavy duty canvas.

[00:19:46] So that you can imagine what it was like when it was wet.

[00:19:51] Yeah. But it's interesting because what we

[00:19:54] did in a bunch of episodes ago, we talked to the curator of the Cuddy Sark

[00:19:58] Museum in England and they talked about how speed was king.

[00:20:03] And does the, I mean, obviously they were racing and they wanted to be fast,

[00:20:07] but does the speed of the schooner.

[00:20:09] So as soon as you catch your, your hall, you got to get in and

[00:20:12] apport as quickly as possible.

[00:20:14] It did. I mean, the speed of the schooner, that obviously takes

[00:20:19] a priority or the skewer to get the trade or get the goods

[00:20:23] into the, into port.

[00:20:26] Lot of unofficial races home.

[00:20:31] Yeah.

[00:20:32] But also the other interesting point you brought you, you said earlier is that

[00:20:36] you didn't, the style in which that you fished off the dungeon

[00:20:40] is that you went out to sea and then you sent men out in Dory's.

[00:20:45] That's right.

[00:20:46] So you're in the middle of the Atlantic in the wintertime

[00:20:50] and an open Dory rowing out to lay, lay lines.

[00:20:54] You talk about hearty people.

[00:20:58] And the days were tremendously long because you got up before dawn

[00:21:04] to bait the long lines with herring.

[00:21:08] And then you set out in the Dory's and you fished all day

[00:21:11] and came back probably around three in the afternoon.

[00:21:17] And then you had hundreds of thousands of fish to cut and clean

[00:21:22] and put away.

[00:21:24] So typically they'd work till after dark and catch about four hours

[00:21:28] of sleep and then back up at it and add it again.

[00:21:31] I can't imagine what the living space folks will smelled like

[00:21:35] after a long voyage.

[00:21:36] A previous crew member from, I believe the fifties, I want to say

[00:21:40] his name was Maurice.

[00:21:42] I want to say Kearney, but I can't remember exactly.

[00:21:45] The museum has done a few interviews with him and he talked about those days.

[00:21:49] His feeling on it now is we did it.

[00:21:52] I don't know how we did it.

[00:21:54] We just did it.

[00:21:56] And his his kind of overview of the days

[00:22:00] and the process of what they do was really, really interesting.

[00:22:03] So that's on the museum's YouTube page.

[00:22:06] It's worth checking out.

[00:22:08] Dutton's fishing career under American ownership was not very long.

[00:22:14] In 1935, she was sold up to Newfoundland in Canadian interests

[00:22:20] and she continued as a long liner and then sort of later on

[00:22:27] in the 40s and 50s, she became a freight boat.

[00:22:31] And in the early 60s, Mystic Seaports started looking at

[00:22:36] good representative Gloucester fishing schooner and heard through

[00:22:42] Irving Johnson and a few others that that Dutton was up in Newfoundland

[00:22:48] still working at this point.

[00:22:51] She was mostly carrying freight, coal and oil from Nova Scotia

[00:22:55] to the outports in Newfoundland and owned by the Buffett Company.

[00:23:00] And Mystic Seaport started negotiations with

[00:23:05] the thought of purchasing her from that company.

[00:23:08] And actually at for the time

[00:23:14] a fairly high price and the vessel was still a viable working

[00:23:18] watercraft, I believe that that they bought her somewhere

[00:23:23] in the vicinity of $30,000 in 1963.

[00:23:28] And the Newfoundland crew together with the few representatives

[00:23:34] from Mystic sailed her down to New London and they delivered her,

[00:23:38] which is very cool.

[00:23:40] But she at this point when you said she was doing carrying freight

[00:23:44] she had turned over to essentially motor,

[00:23:47] a motor vessel at that point, correct?

[00:23:50] Well, she still, she still had her masks and she still had riding sails.

[00:23:54] So I think they used them.

[00:23:57] She had a four cylinder Fairbanks, Morse, crude oil, diesel engine in her.

[00:24:03] And yeah, I have seen pictures of her with the with the sails on.

[00:24:12] The stern had been cut off to kind of a square steamboat stern

[00:24:17] and the Bowsprit had been taken off too for ease of docking.

[00:24:22] In fact, one of the first things Mystic Seaport did at Thames Shipyard

[00:24:26] in New London was to put a schooner style transom on her.

[00:24:32] And then then they brought her up to the museum and rigged her

[00:24:35] as she would have been with a full summer racing rig in the in the 60s.

[00:24:41] What was the for Mystic when they were looking at the

[00:24:44] Dutton and bringing her into the into the yard?

[00:24:49] What was the purpose?

[00:24:50] Was they were they thinking purely as we want to have an example

[00:24:54] of a Gloucester fishing schooner?

[00:24:55] Or was there some other reason for bringing it?

[00:24:58] Were they going to use her as a sailing vessel or just as a snapshot of history?

[00:25:05] I think the early intent was always just as a really good

[00:25:09] representative example of Gloucester fishing schooner.

[00:25:13] And Dutton had a real purity about her,

[00:25:17] even though she had done a little bit of fraying.

[00:25:19] She had mostly fished all her life and that's all she had done.

[00:25:23] And the conversion work that had been done to her was not that extreme.

[00:25:29] You had mentioned that she had had some work done

[00:25:31] and she wasn't quite in the original condition that she was built.

[00:25:34] And she had the the pilot house, the stern had been converted,

[00:25:37] the boughs were gone, the rig was changed.

[00:25:41] At what point did the museum realize that it was time

[00:25:45] for a little bit of restoration work?

[00:25:47] When when did that kind of become a priority?

[00:25:51] I they they got on that right away, which is interesting.

[00:25:57] And Basil Tupland, the master shipwright,

[00:26:00] who put the transom on her at Thames Shipyard,

[00:26:04] he did that before she even was brought up river to the museum.

[00:26:09] They didn't finish the job completely.

[00:26:12] They had it framed, the transom was plank, but the bulwarks were not installed.

[00:26:18] And she lost a little shape at that point, right?

[00:26:22] And I think a little bit, but not much.

[00:26:25] Did they did they do something that they raised the bull?

[00:26:28] Can the the bulwarks a little bit to kind of fake the shape a little bit?

[00:26:33] That's that's a later story that happened at Mystic in the seventies.

[00:26:39] And it's a it's a little bit of a sad story.

[00:26:44] Mystic did not have a way to haul the vessel and support it adequately.

[00:26:49] So they started a rebuild, which we call a retopping in the water.

[00:26:55] And they took off topside planking

[00:26:58] and that accelerated the hogging

[00:27:02] that had already started through her age.

[00:27:05] And and it got away from them a bit.

[00:27:08] So when you were talking about the corrective measures,

[00:27:11] that was done after the seventies restoration

[00:27:15] to try to address the sheer, which is a had

[00:27:22] it became a huge topic of discussion around Mystic.

[00:27:25] And for those that really knew what they were looking at.

[00:27:30] And and in some ways, a bit of a disaster, really

[00:27:35] not good looking at all like her original form.

[00:27:38] So the the current restoration that we've just started now,

[00:27:42] that's one of the major things that we are addressing.

[00:27:46] Put her back into that beautiful seabird look.

[00:27:49] When you when you say hogging, Walt, for those who don't understand that

[00:27:53] that concept, what is hogging on a ship like this?

[00:27:57] That's when the midbody of the vessel is

[00:28:00] is basically pushing up and the ends are drooping.

[00:28:04] And the shear line, which is the the curve of the rail

[00:28:07] or the edge of the deck becomes flattened.

[00:28:11] Or in a worst case scenario, can kind of assume

[00:28:15] a mustache shape that's humped up in the middle and curved at the ends.

[00:28:20] For let's say, that's kind of where we were in the seventies.

[00:28:23] And we tried adjusting the height of the top rail.

[00:28:27] But the hull was weak enough that this was kind of a little bit too late.

[00:28:31] Really didn't correct the problem.

[00:28:33] Yeah, for listeners who can't see the video, Walt has a tremendous mustache.

[00:28:40] If we're going to use that as a unit of measure that should be noted.

[00:28:43] But what is the I think I've read a couple different numbers,

[00:28:47] but it was more than three feet drop on either.

[00:28:51] Yeah, it was a little over three feet, which for a vessel

[00:28:55] it's 120 feet on deck. That's that's pretty significant.

[00:29:00] Yeah. When did when did it come about that?

[00:29:03] We were going to undertake the current restoration.

[00:29:06] How long ago, how long has this been in the works for the museum?

[00:29:11] I would say we knew that we absolutely had to do something,

[00:29:16] but we didn't get the the bandwidth really

[00:29:20] to deal with it until about three years ago.

[00:29:24] The plan was started, but you had mentioned that the shipyard

[00:29:30] moving a boat like this isn't isn't easy.

[00:29:32] And it's not you mentioned in the 70s, it wasn't easy in the 60s.

[00:29:36] It wasn't easy even today.

[00:29:38] It's not an easy process and the busy

[00:29:43] and the amount of work that the shipyard is currently doing.

[00:29:45] You didn't have space to haul her

[00:29:48] and on the railway that you would normally haul her.

[00:29:50] So the plan was made that you would lift her with a crane.

[00:29:54] And luckily enough, you got to practice on the coronet down at Iris.

[00:29:59] Using two cranes to lift her up onto the bar.

[00:30:01] So you were able to get one under your belt.

[00:30:04] How did that process go at Mystic?

[00:30:07] Because there was a there was another issue as well.

[00:30:09] You didn't have a suitable pad to set her on before you even lifted, correct?

[00:30:15] Yeah, that was a that was an amazing effort to be involved in.

[00:30:22] As you said, we sort of had the dry run.

[00:30:24] We had a thousand ton crane barge in Newport

[00:30:28] and we had rented rigging and lift assembly

[00:30:34] from Texas or was Oklahoma, excuse me,

[00:30:39] that were steel spreaders, big cables,

[00:30:43] triplates and all that and then big nylon web straps.

[00:30:48] And Coronet was a little bit lighter than

[00:30:52] Dunton and more of a straight type of haul to deal with.

[00:30:57] It had less rocker to it, but without too much adjustment,

[00:31:02] we were able to use all the same rigging for hauling Dunton out.

[00:31:07] And we had rather than a barge based thousand ton crane,

[00:31:13] we had for Dunton two six hundred ton

[00:31:16] shore based lead hair cranes that they brought in and assembled

[00:31:21] and our visitor parking lot across the street

[00:31:25] and drove them over and put them on site at the north end of the shipyard.

[00:31:30] And then we did the lift from the water right there

[00:31:33] and flew the schooner basically between the cranes

[00:31:36] and just set her right on the other side.

[00:31:39] So it was it was a close, close fitting thing.

[00:31:44] And your question about the ground is really interesting.

[00:31:49] The shipyard is built on fill and we were concerned

[00:31:54] about the fill at that north end supporting her weight.

[00:31:58] So we did a bunch of test drilling and sure enough, down to 20 feet,

[00:32:02] we hit mud and we realized that we had either poor slab

[00:32:08] or come up with some sort of alternative support

[00:32:11] the way to the ship for the restoration.

[00:32:13] So what we the most economical

[00:32:17] way turned out to be driving 24 pilings

[00:32:22] down to a certain resistance, almost like we were building a dock

[00:32:27] and then cutting them off in the bottom of a trench

[00:32:31] and then pouring a concrete spine or kind of backbone

[00:32:36] to land the ship on.

[00:32:38] And that worked out very, very well.

[00:32:41] Is this something that you're you're going to be able to utilize

[00:32:43] moving forward when this restoration is done?

[00:32:46] Absolutely.

[00:32:47] There's talk about putting Roseway on there

[00:32:50] when we're done with that.

[00:32:54] Was there any worry in the difference between the coronet

[00:32:59] move and the Dutton move is that the coronet was at this point

[00:33:02] the hull and the backbone is fully restored?

[00:33:04] Was there a concern of about a hundred year old schooner being

[00:33:07] lifted by two cranes that she might just fold in half?

[00:33:10] And it might this whole thing might be a end really quickly

[00:33:14] and badly?

[00:33:15] Well, there was absolutely.

[00:33:17] And we were very careful to take the strain with the cranes

[00:33:23] and and lift her just a bit.

[00:33:26] And Chris Kiseric, my boss, one of our vice presidents,

[00:33:31] he was sighting from forward and I was sighting from Aft

[00:33:35] and it was pretty astonishing.

[00:33:37] The hull was so well supported by the straps

[00:33:41] that we saw no movement at all.

[00:33:43] We had a few shipwrights down below that said they heard

[00:33:46] a little bit of creaking, but nothing of significance.

[00:33:50] So we got very lucky.

[00:33:53] That's amazing. Please.

[00:33:54] Yeah. So the video is also on Mystic's website.

[00:33:58] The video of them hauling this thing up with the two cranes

[00:34:01] and really truly the ballet you guys did as you threaded

[00:34:05] the needle and put her on down is truly remarkable.

[00:34:08] She was about 150 long tons in that at that point.

[00:34:14] What was pouring that when they lifted her?

[00:34:17] She was a little less than that.

[00:34:18] I think she was around 120.

[00:34:21] We had we had debalasted

[00:34:23] Dunton before that lift and lightened her up

[00:34:26] just as much as we could.

[00:34:28] So now that you have the boat up on shore,

[00:34:30] let's talk a little bit about the restoration.

[00:34:32] Is this a cosmetic restoration to be used

[00:34:35] just kind of as a dockside exhibit?

[00:34:37] Or is this going to be a full comprehensive restoration?

[00:34:41] Is is there any chance that we may see her

[00:34:44] sailing again in the future?

[00:34:45] Like we saw with the Morgan?

[00:34:48] Our hope is to sail her.

[00:34:51] It's it's it's an extraordinary vessel.

[00:34:54] And I think those of us who have been

[00:34:59] taking care of her and watching her for so long,

[00:35:01] that would be the ultimate thing to to to be able to do that.

[00:35:06] It's a more compelling reason

[00:35:10] for donors to give money to the project, too,

[00:35:12] as we found out with Morgan.

[00:35:15] And she she probably would be a little bit easier

[00:35:20] to sail than Morgan with the Mystic River.

[00:35:23] We were limited somewhat with depth and and Morgan

[00:35:27] to have her ballasted to a safe sailing depth.

[00:35:31] It's it's too deep for the river.

[00:35:32] We had to do that in New London, but with the Dunton

[00:35:36] wouldn't be the case.

[00:35:37] We could ballast her and and take her in and out of the river

[00:35:41] without too much trouble.

[00:35:43] The Dutton has been restored and modified

[00:35:46] numerous times in her life as of as she sits now as you're

[00:35:49] restoring her. How much of her is original?

[00:35:54] That's a that's a tough question, but I would just

[00:35:59] say maybe 30 or 40 percent is original at this point.

[00:36:05] Yeah. And then what period because she's gone through

[00:36:07] the different kind of transformations, what period are

[00:36:09] you restoring her to? You're doing the original schooner.

[00:36:12] The original as she was in 1920.

[00:36:15] 1921, that's 21. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:18] Yeah. Nothing about the marine world is cheap.

[00:36:24] And when you're talking about a ship of this size,

[00:36:26] the numbers can quickly get out of hand.

[00:36:29] Funding for a project like this has to be difficult.

[00:36:31] How is the museum approach this this Herculean task?

[00:36:35] The.

[00:36:38] The advancement team is really on it and working hard

[00:36:43] and courting courting donors.

[00:36:46] I've been talking to donors also to try to do my part

[00:36:50] to help to tell the back story.

[00:36:53] And I didn't completely answer your question from earlier.

[00:36:57] It is going to be a complete restoration.

[00:37:00] There is no question because she has lost so much shit

[00:37:04] and we need to we need to put her back to looking

[00:37:08] as she did in 1921.

[00:37:11] So if we're lucky, we'll save maybe a fifth of what could

[00:37:15] be determined to be original structure,

[00:37:19] but that'll probably be about all.

[00:37:22] We have pushed the bow up with 50 ton hydraulic jacks

[00:37:27] three feet.

[00:37:28] We've loosened her up that much forward and

[00:37:32] that's pretty amazing.

[00:37:35] We don't really know about many efforts of bending

[00:37:39] 120 foot schooner.

[00:37:41] So we think that we're kind of pushing the envelope

[00:37:45] here in museum restorations and it's pretty darn exciting.

[00:37:50] It's I think it's significant to at least point out

[00:37:55] these vessels when they were built, they were not built.

[00:37:58] And this thing we see this with all the classic

[00:38:02] boats that come into the shop.

[00:38:03] These boats were not built to last 100 years.

[00:38:06] They were they were built as quick as possible to get out.

[00:38:09] So thinking about a 100 year old ship and the condition

[00:38:15] that she's still floating alone is pretty spectacular.

[00:38:19] It is it is.

[00:38:21] And you're absolutely right.

[00:38:22] They were an economy build probably I think the average

[00:38:26] life was only about 12 years, which is really horrific.

[00:38:30] But they the intent was to get them to last about 25 years or so.

[00:38:36] They were trunel fastened with wooden nails, which actually is

[00:38:40] a very good fastening system lasts a long time.

[00:38:45] But the the rest of the fasteners in the hall, the butts

[00:38:49] and the hanging fasteners were all galvanized iron.

[00:38:53] And that as you know, Carter being in the business,

[00:38:56] that's got a life of about 25 or 30 years.

[00:38:59] And then the tannic acid in the oak just eats the fastening away.

[00:39:03] And you're left with a very weak and poor

[00:39:08] situation, often the wood being rotted by the iron fastener also.

[00:39:15] So I know I hate it when people come into the shop and ask me

[00:39:19] about timelines and length and schedules and all that kind of stuff.

[00:39:22] But Walt, I do have to ask what is the timeline of this project?

[00:39:26] What are you guys? What is mystic thinking?

[00:39:29] Well, we're thinking anywhere from seven to ten years.

[00:39:33] And we have a very small crew on there right now.

[00:39:35] We have three full time shipwrights and we've got amazing volunteers.

[00:39:41] We've had interns from Iris working on the vessel.

[00:39:45] But the way I see it is we have the first new keel piece

[00:39:51] that slated to go in in the next couple of weeks.

[00:39:54] And I think there are going to be eyes on the project and momentum is going to build.

[00:39:59] And I think what we're going to get is a bigger and bigger crew as we move forward.

[00:40:07] I put together an advisory committee and

[00:40:11] been just amazing.

[00:40:12] Maynard Bray, who worked on and was a steward of the vessel back in the 70s,

[00:40:17] is still with us and is on my committee or our committee.

[00:40:23] And what an amazing thing to have him as a resource.

[00:40:28] Taylor Allen, Nat Benjamin,

[00:40:32] people that have been working on large timber vessels in New England for a long, long time.

[00:40:37] We did not want to make

[00:40:40] our decisions without some sort of bedding.

[00:40:44] And it's been awesome.

[00:40:47] A really, really great resource.

[00:40:51] So the shipyard, it's philosophy and its mission isn't just to save historic vessels,

[00:40:58] but it's also to save the skills and that way of life.

[00:41:02] So are people going to be able to visit the Dutton during this process

[00:41:06] and to see the work that these carpenters and shipwrights are doing

[00:41:10] and learn about the process as she goes?

[00:41:12] Absolutely. And that is key.

[00:41:16] I mean, it's part of our mission, just as you mentioned, is to preserve the trade.

[00:41:21] And we are we're closely involved with the International Yacht Restoration School

[00:41:28] in Newport. We have a number of graduates working on our projects,

[00:41:34] working in the Yard of Shipwrights.

[00:41:37] There are certain people that go through that program

[00:41:40] that decide they really like the heavy timber work in the marine world.

[00:41:46] vessel restoration or building.

[00:41:49] I kind of like to think of what we do almost as if it's the post and beam version of boat building.

[00:41:57] But what an amazing resource to have.

[00:42:00] And yes, absolutely, the vessels got to be kept open.

[00:42:05] We're in the process of installing wheelchair access to the inside of the hull,

[00:42:10] which is unprecedented. We've never done that before.

[00:42:14] And we have a tower. People can walk up and get on deck and look down into the

[00:42:21] open bow now, which is open deck beams and looking right at the frames kind of a skeleton appearance.

[00:42:30] The other thing that's very hard is to keep her looking as a schooner hull while we go through

[00:42:38] this whole process. So it might take a little bit longer and we might do things a bit slowly,

[00:42:45] but we'll always have that amazing profile and her presence as a Glosterman rather than

[00:42:53] cutting off large chunks and throwing them on the ground and building them new.

[00:42:59] It's important to have that when I say model, but it's important to have the

[00:43:05] fixture there in the yard for people to see, to know that what's going on. I completely understand.

[00:43:10] Yes, it might take longer, but it really does. It lends to the effect of how we're going to get

[00:43:18] this ship restored. How can listeners keep up with the progress on the Dutton and also

[00:43:23] what's going on at the Henry B. DuPont preservation shipyard? Come by and see us.

[00:43:29] The wooden boat show. Yeah. End of June. Wooden boat shows. One time.

[00:43:33] Yeah. The yard hours, the crew works seven to three thirty five days a week.

[00:43:42] As far as we know, we're the only museum shipyard in the country that's open to visitors. You can

[00:43:49] walk right through. You can watch our sawyers turning white oak logs into timbers on our sawmills.

[00:43:57] You can go up in the gallery and the main shop and look down and see shipwrights fitting pieces

[00:44:03] into the smaller projects inside the shop. So that access is extraordinary, I think.

[00:44:11] And also one of the things that's amazing, you think of an old shipyard where it's

[00:44:17] wooden boats and it's very antiquated, but your social, the mystic social media

[00:44:22] is really on par with, I mean, I think you guys are the only shipyard like big boat shipyard that's

[00:44:29] on TikTok. Walt, I mean, are you aware of that? Yeah, I'm kind of 19th century with that, but I

[00:44:35] understand that we are pretty well represented. Yeah. You guys are on YouTube, Instagram,

[00:44:40] TikTok. It's pretty, it's pretty across the entire sphere of the social medias. Well,

[00:44:46] thanks, Walt. This has been a fascinating talk about the Dutton. I really appreciate your time

[00:44:50] and spreading the knowledge on the vessel. Absolutely, Carter. And please come by and

[00:44:57] see what we're up to. It's a fascinating place and very busy these days. Yeah, it boggles my mind

[00:45:05] that just as you were describing, you can as a tourist walk on the grounds and watch

[00:45:11] the carpenters and the shipwrights do all actually do the work. There's nothing else

[00:45:17] like it in the world. That's right. That's really cool. All right. Well, thank you again, Walt. Have

[00:45:21] a great day and we'll talk to you soon. YouTube take care fellas. Welcome back to Around the Buoy.

[00:45:57] We say it about all of our guests, Tyler, but that is just fascinating. Yeah. I mean, it's

[00:46:05] a boat that, you know, I've known of. I visited her at the seaport many times. I mean,

[00:46:12] just hard to miss. She's really a pretty boat. So it's exciting that after all this time that

[00:46:19] they're able to put in some time and capital into ensuring that she's going to last for another

[00:46:27] 104 years. What I've, you know, because she's obviously going to mystic, she's obviously doxide.

[00:46:34] Just kind of sitting there waiting for her to come out. But when she's, I was up there in,

[00:46:42] I want to say like January picking up some wood for a boat and I was right next to the

[00:46:50] Dutton and to see it out of the water was really impressive. But then to see it,

[00:46:56] what they're doing to the shear line to get rid of the hog as we torture this boat back into

[00:47:02] shape is really impressive. They have a long piece of plywood with foot markers on it, like,

[00:47:09] you know, every six inches markers on it and the amount that they are moving this boat is truly

[00:47:14] remarkable. It's amazing that the things that the ship here does because I'm used to seeing boats

[00:47:20] on a much smaller scale, you know, big boats are 40, 50 feet, which are half less than half

[00:47:29] the size of these boats. And the scale of everything is so impressive, you know, frames are

[00:47:34] frames at that point. They're huge. And, you know, it's not just a quick and easy thing to reframe

[00:47:41] a boat like it is 12 and a half, you know, relatively one person can kind of do it

[00:47:48] piece by piece. But, you know, the size of everything is so much larger.

[00:47:52] Yeah, we, it's really impressive. And to see it again up close and see a 100 foot ship

[00:47:59] with these frames that are just these massive sawn frames that you're,

[00:48:04] yeah, again, they're, you're talking about cranes moving into place. It is, it is a very,

[00:48:10] very impressive, impressive feat. And I mean, the, I will stress to our listeners,

[00:48:17] do yourself a favor and search online them lifting the Dutton out of the water. Because

[00:48:25] that was, and they truly, it was a ballet. They had two cranes and they were on either side of the,

[00:48:32] of the, of the yacht or the ship. And they had to thread this thing through the needle. It was,

[00:48:38] it was ballet. I'm telling you, it was so impressive. And, you know, the other aspect

[00:48:44] that I find really impressive is that throughout all of this, it's still an open museum. And

[00:48:50] you can go in and watch every day, you can go in and see what they're doing. And Walt had mentioned

[00:48:56] that this is the first time that it's been handicap accessible, a restoration like this where

[00:49:05] wheelchair accessibility even into the hole now to watch the work being done, which I think is

[00:49:10] amazing. It's, it's really incredible. It takes a really difficult tasks and makes it

[00:49:16] even more difficult having people be able to, you know, work in and around public access like that.

[00:49:23] But it just goes to that mission of we're not just preserving the boats, but we're preserving the,

[00:49:28] the skills and, and the, I think I said maritime tradition, but those careers of

[00:49:34] ships, carpenters and things like that, that we would be sorely missing if places like the

[00:49:40] Seaport weren't around. Yeah, big time. I do feel for, Walt had said like that, that they're just

[00:49:46] two shipwrights working on this ship right now. Man, that's got to be a pretty lonely job. Just

[00:49:51] the two of you in this boat that is seriously falling down all around you and just like,

[00:49:56] all right guys, when is help coming? Because this is going to be a 10 year program and

[00:50:03] then another 20 if it's just the two of us, those poor guys. A big shout out to you guys.

[00:50:09] Yeah. But how cool would that be in the 20, 20, mid 2030s to see that boat back out in the Atlantic

[00:50:18] sail? Oh my God. That would be so cool. Yeah, I can't remember if he was on air or off air,

[00:50:24] but we were talking about like the Morgan when they restored her and they took her,

[00:50:29] they actually took her out sailing. There's so much internal ballast in there that the

[00:50:34] passage from the shipyard out to the, I guess that's Long Island sounder is not deep enough

[00:50:42] through the city of Mystic. And so they have to offload all of that ballast. They are,

[00:50:48] I think they initially unloaded all in New London and then went for their cruise up and

[00:50:54] down the East coast and then took it all out and then it came into Mystic. So

[00:50:59] it's pretty difficult for it to go in and out, but yeah, the, the Dutton, they'll be able to take out

[00:51:06] regularly. So it's going to be, it'll be awesome again if they can raise the money,

[00:51:12] the extra couple of million dollars to make it a working sailing vessel than I think so much

[00:51:18] better off everyone is. And that's, you know, that's the most difficult part. I would imagine

[00:51:23] as a shipwright, the restoration is fairly straightforward, but the difficulty comes in

[00:51:28] and funding the restoration. But even that is relatively easy. It's the perpetual funding

[00:51:37] after that. Forever funding. I've seen it over and over again. It's really easy to get a ship built

[00:51:44] or to get a program started or a restoration funded, but it stops becoming popular, entertaining and,

[00:51:55] you know, upfront in your mind once that is done. When it comes to, well, you know, we've got to

[00:52:00] paint the bottom again next winter and next winter and next winter people lose their focus

[00:52:08] and, you know, donations. I would imagine start to dry up there a little bit. So that's the next

[00:52:14] aspect, the next hurdle that they'll have to. Well, the Mayflower just came back this winter

[00:52:20] to Mystic for a four year checkup. I mean, it launched in 2019 and was it 19?

[00:52:29] It was, yeah, because it was closed down for COVID. So they just, but they just came back

[00:52:32] to just do a, to reassess and make sure everything goes okay. So yeah,

[00:52:36] it's got to go to these. It's a floating depreciating asset, right? Whether it's in the water or up on

[00:52:47] the hard, I mean, it's deteriorating constantly and it's a never ending battle.

[00:52:55] If not that then the worms are trying to eat it. Worms. Worms.

[00:52:59] All right, my friend. We are going to let the cat out of the bag and let everyone know where you

[00:53:06] are going to be in February of 2025. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think this is my style. It's not

[00:53:15] my speed, man. No, it's not, you know, my feelings on cruises and this one's not,

[00:53:20] not making it any better. What's your feeling on nudity? I mean, yes,

[00:53:24] he may not like cruises, but how about a nude cruise? Yeah, I don't think that's,

[00:53:28] I don't think that's on my list of things to do either.

[00:53:32] Well, there is a cruise, a new cruise. It's being labeled as the big nude cruise boat.

[00:53:38] It is 11 day adventure. Who the genius came up with that, man? They earned their money.

[00:53:45] What a stupid name.

[00:53:48] It's an 11 day adventure as they're calling it on board the Norwegian Pearl.

[00:53:54] It is a Norwegian cruise lines vessel, obviously, and it set sales from Miami

[00:53:59] in February 2025. And it has destinations in the East to Caribbean, but also Tyler.

[00:54:05] And this is where I think you would really come into your form. There is a private island

[00:54:10] that they're going to go to in the Bahamas. But while they're on the cruise, they're also

[00:54:15] making a stop at a private island. I don't know if it's a Norwegian cruise line,

[00:54:19] private island, or if it's one of the, I think it's called, is it bear sensations? Is

[00:54:24] there one of the Disney something or others? It's not a Disney Island. Why is Goofy? Well,

[00:54:31] actually none of them wear pants. Donald Duck's not wearing pants. When the poo doesn't wear

[00:54:37] pants, the majority of those characters are just filthy. Filty anyway. So they, they,

[00:54:43] they a couple of days on a private island, secluded island rates for this Tyler. I don't

[00:54:51] know. We can talk about what state room you're getting, but rates could be anywhere from or

[00:54:55] vary anywhere from $2,000 a person for an inside cabin room or a high roller like yourself, Tyler

[00:55:02] can spend over $33,000 for a three bedroom villa. And in all the ship can accommodate 2,300

[00:55:14] unclothed passengers. That doesn't make any sense because I get ads and I've never taken a cruise,

[00:55:19] but I get ads and stuff online all the time. And it's like 500 bucks for a seven night cruise.

[00:55:25] So how can it possibly be four times that? Because there's no clothes involved.

[00:55:30] Probably cause all the extra laundry for the towels and things like that.

[00:55:35] Everyone's using towels. Everyone's using towels. Well, they have,

[00:55:40] it's right. They have rules on board to keep things

[00:55:45] sanitary, which I found to be ridiculous. So if you're going to use any of the

[00:55:53] weight room equipment or like the deck loungers, they require you to put a towel down.

[00:55:58] Thank God. Makes sense. Or here's the loophole. You can wear a thumb.

[00:56:03] Well, which I don't understand how that is actually better than just going buff.

[00:56:15] I was going through the, when I was getting ready for this, I was going through the

[00:56:19] Norwegian pearl and looking at all the amenities. They've got, you know,

[00:56:23] a million different restaurants. They've got like a sushi restaurant, which is cool steakhouse.

[00:56:29] They've got a Japanese Hibachi, which danger of that.

[00:56:34] That just seems like a bad idea. And if it's possible to go from a bad idea to a worse idea,

[00:56:41] they've got a million buffets and I'm sorry, Tyler. I don't know.

[00:56:47] It's just, I don't understand the stupidity of this. I don't care if you want,

[00:56:53] if you're a newtist, that's great. I'm very proud of you. I don't care if you take

[00:56:57] a cruise. That's wonderful. I just don't understand the rules. So it's a newt cruise.

[00:57:03] You have to be closed and they come into port. You can't be out waving from the balcony as you

[00:57:09] pull into Miami. That's not okay. The towels on the chairs, I get it. The thong, don't get it.

[00:57:18] Restaurants, you have to be clothed, but they said absolutely no to bathrobes. Bathrobes are

[00:57:24] not allowed, which is really funny. I mean, our bathrobes are not allowed, but the thong's okay.

[00:57:29] Bad idea. I don't know. That's a very good question.

[00:57:35] I'm starting to think that this falls into the negative side of our cruise ship coverage.

[00:57:39] This is not going to bolster the cruise ship experience. So Mike, the question that I have

[00:57:45] is that, so you've got 2,300 passengers on board and that means you probably have

[00:57:53] let's say 600, 700,000 workers. So you've got all these newt people walking around. What is

[00:58:00] like the people that are like the Isaacs and the Gophers and the Julie Cruise directors?

[00:58:07] What are they doing? Are they uncomfortable walking around just talking to newt people

[00:58:11] all the time? None of this makes sense. I've never taken a cruise and I've never watched

[00:58:16] the love boat, but I believe that's what you're referencing. Yeah, it was. Yeah.

[00:58:21] Is that the one with the plane to plane boss? No, that's Fantasy Island, you fool.

[00:58:26] I thought they were stopping at Fantasy Island. I'm sure there was a crossover.

[00:58:31] I think that's how the globetrotters got on Gilligan's Island actually.

[00:58:36] I would rather be stuck with Gilligan on the island than to go on this cruise with

[00:58:40] 2,000 naked people. 2,300 naked people. Well yeah, so it leaves Miami.

[00:58:50] Like February 5th I think it is. 2025 comes back, what do you say? 11 days later or 17 days later?

[00:58:56] You know what? I think I'm going to, they're not forcing you to be naked. So I'm going to

[00:59:02] change my answer because come February 2025, I mean I might take a week on a boat full of

[00:59:09] naked people just to see some sunshine. Oh, well the moon would be out all day.

[00:59:18] That's the silliest joke you've ever made. We're going to move on to, we'll call it a brewing

[00:59:25] controversy, maybe a brooding controversy. Did you get it? That's a dumb controversy, but continue.

[00:59:32] An update on the Stingray Charlotte. For those of our listeners who maybe aren't familiar,

[00:59:39] maybe haven't listened to the last couple of episodes, Charlotte is a Stingray in a North

[00:59:47] Carolina aquarium and right around March they started noticing that it was growing

[00:59:54] and they actually thought it was a cancer growth. They did some ultrasounds to it

[01:00:00] and found out that Charlotte was actually pregnant, but the only hitch is that Charlotte is in a tank

[01:00:07] with only female rays and other sharks. The only explanation is that this was a virgin birth and

[01:00:15] what was it? It was auto genesis. An immaculate conception. An immaculate conception. I forget

[01:00:19] the actual scientific term, but it was an immaculate conception where Charlotte just grew

[01:00:25] the embryos and they was going to be born from that. It's happened before and it's happening in front

[01:00:31] of our eyes, but it has never happened in captivity. Never happened in captivity. To a ray anyway. Yes,

[01:00:38] to a ray. But in the last two weeks there's starting to be some murmurs and some

[01:00:45] questions. What do you mean in the last two weeks? There were murmurs and questions.

[01:00:50] So the first, you forgot to say that the first explanation was that Charlotte was impregnated by

[01:00:58] a shark. I think Tyler, if you go back and check the tape, you're just not listening.

[01:01:03] That's quite possible. I did mention that was the other, that was like the first,

[01:01:08] what's happened here? Oh, well clearly it was a shark, which they're not entirely sure that's

[01:01:13] even possible. That's what they went with. But so the gestation time for a ray like this

[01:01:21] is anywhere from three to four months and this, they think this might have happened

[01:01:26] like in the October timeframe. So March would have been right when they discovered this right

[01:01:33] around the time where Charlotte should be giving birth, but it hasn't happened yet.

[01:01:37] So what's today's date? It is May 15th today. So that is past that we are, we're gonna pass that. We

[01:01:43] are, we actually, the article stated, we have entered into the eight month of pregnancy. So

[01:01:50] but about two weeks ago, the aquarium had sick and tired of answering questions.

[01:01:55] So they disabled comments on their social media posts. So you could, you could read it,

[01:02:01] but then you couldn't question it. You could throw out questions like what the hell's going

[01:02:04] on here? Not fishy at all. Not fishy at all. Not, not at all. And then recently on Facebook,

[01:02:10] they posted this update and the quote is, as the care of our animal family is of utmost importance,

[01:02:16] we have aligned with expanded support of the medical teams of qualified veterinarians for

[01:02:21] additional testing. We continue to work closely with the team sharing and observation changes

[01:02:27] or notes on Charlotte. The staff is taking extra care, extra care with time.

[01:02:33] Oh, I'm sorry. The staff is taking extra care and time next with Charlotte as we continue

[01:02:39] the scientific process. They've recently hired a few more doctors. They have Dr Pepper, Dr. Acula.

[01:02:49] Dr. Acula, that is really funny. Yeah. Yeah. It's really funny. Oh my God.

[01:02:56] And they're also hiring a PR firm because that is an awful statement. This doesn't tell you anything.

[01:03:02] So it was an awful statement the first time, but then three days later, they released

[01:03:05] a nearly identical statement. So there are some answers or some potential answers to what are

[01:03:14] going on here. Some marine biologists suggest that the pups have died and the embryos

[01:03:22] eventually be reabsorbed by Charlotte into her body. Also, that the embryos have just stopped growing.

[01:03:31] They said, hey, we're going to chill out here for a little while until

[01:03:35] the environment gets better. And that could be the environment in the tank

[01:03:39] that gets better or the mom's gets better nutrition or feels better. Who knows?

[01:03:45] Charlotte's under a ton of stress, Tyler. It has to be very difficult to be

[01:03:50] under this type of pressure. Very much, though. But so fans are growing incredibly impatient

[01:03:57] and suggesting that much like Tyler has suggested from the beginning that maybe she wasn't pregnant

[01:04:03] at all. They're asking for press releases, especially a release of another ultrasound.

[01:04:11] There's been to no avail. They've released one ultrasound and they

[01:04:16] they stated that it showed four pups.

[01:04:22] People in the know professionals said maybe one, but I don't see four. So it sounds kind of like

[01:04:30] a money grab. Like they've been using this for promotion to get more donations and then maybe

[01:04:37] just hoping that people were going to forget about it. Do you think like at a board meeting

[01:04:43] at this aquarium, they said, you know what? Let's invent a story of immaculate conception.

[01:04:50] Have you watched Tiger King? Very good. Touché. Point to Tyler. Point to Tyler.

[01:04:58] I mean, that wasn't an aquarium, but like there are crazy stories from zoos. Well,

[01:05:05] in the news right now, there's a Chinese zoo that's in trouble because they have a panda

[01:05:10] exhibit that isn't pandas. It's like, it's golden retrievers. It's golden retrievers painted like a

[01:05:16] panda bear. So I mean, no, I don't have any problem believing at all that this was a money grab.

[01:05:27] But it's going to go bad. It's already gone bad. How would they, how would this,

[01:05:32] I don't understand how the aquarium would say, all right, this is what we're going to do.

[01:05:35] We're going to grab money for like three weeks and then we're going to be tarnished.

[01:05:40] Our reputation is going to be thrown around and we're going to be a total useless aquarium.

[01:05:45] It's not worth it. What's easier to believe? This aquarium with questionable decision making

[01:05:51] did some free press hate, no new, like no press is bad press, right? And then hope that people

[01:05:59] would forget it or that immaculate conception or shark impregnation, whatever. Like which one of

[01:06:07] those, these options is more believable. I'm going to go on with the money grab.

[01:06:13] I see what you're saying, Tyler. And it might be, do you think, do you think this is like

[01:06:20] the worst night where we're exactly, they thought this was going to go away.

[01:06:24] And next thing you know, it caught on and it was worldwide. And they're like, oh crap,

[01:06:30] like now what? We thought this was going to be like two weeks in the news cycle and then gone.

[01:06:35] And then these yellow retrievers or these, these golden retrievers in China would take our headlines

[01:06:43] but they're still continuing to be in the headlines. You think that was just totally

[01:06:47] underestimated? Maybe, maybe. And there's just somebody, there's somebody in a very small

[01:06:53] dark office that is just rocking back and forth hoping, I want my swing line stapler

[01:06:59] hoping for an immaculate conception at this point. That's their out. They're out. They're

[01:07:05] out. They're just hoping and praying that this has, has babies. Man, that's, that is really,

[01:07:12] that's really unfortunate. If you're listening, Mr. Whoever you are, Mr. Orr misses in the

[01:07:21] dark closet shaking and waiting for immaculate conception, give us the call. Well, let's, we'll

[01:07:26] let you tell your story. That's what they want to do. They want to come on this podcast

[01:07:33] and then tell us and tell us all about their mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing enough though,

[01:07:39] Tyler, as if Manta rays or rays and sharks aren't in the news in this story.

[01:07:47] Have you seen the stuff coming out of the like DARPA and the Navy with the, their new,

[01:07:54] their new drones that are like they're called, I think one's called a shark. Dylan's called the

[01:07:57] Manta. One's a ghost shark. Yeah, a ghost shark. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. And then

[01:08:04] what did they call the other one? I think it's just the Manta. It's just the Manta ray.

[01:08:10] Yeah. I mean, it looks, it looks exactly like a Manta ray. It does. It just looks like a

[01:08:14] humongous. They didn't give dimensions to this thing, but it's, I don't know, like it's,

[01:08:19] like maybe the size of a small private jet. Yeah. It's that large. It's wild. But they're,

[01:08:24] they're surveillance. Well, they call them surveillance drones, but they do have a payload

[01:08:30] capacity, which means they can shoot something because that's what we do, right?

[01:08:36] It has to be able to spy and it has to be able to blow stuff up. Those are the two

[01:08:39] things that we need to focus on. So yeah, it's just this massive underwater and

[01:08:46] the propulsion in the article they mentioned that it doesn't have standard propulsion, that it's

[01:08:53] ballasted. So like if in a submarine, if you blow your air tanks and rise or

[01:09:03] fill with water and sink, there's going to be some forward

[01:09:06] progress made just the way that water flows over the

[01:09:13] rudders and fins and all that stuff, all the steering apertures. So that's maybe how this is being

[01:09:20] moved through the water column is just maybe down up and down. So if we just for

[01:09:25] long, endless periods of surveillance in far away places, which sounds pretty cool, but

[01:09:33] I don't know. Like if we were out sailing off a new port and one of these things just like

[01:09:38] zoomed by, I don't know. I think that'd be kind of shocking.

[01:09:42] Do you listen to Alex Hollings? I think his name is. He is a, he does a bunch of military stuff

[01:09:49] on Instagram. He is friggin brilliant. He was, used to be an F 14 backseater and

[01:09:57] the guy's just incredibly brilliant and the stuff he talks about, but he mentioned

[01:10:02] the Manta and the stuff that it would do. And it just, it goes out and just sits and waits and

[01:10:08] listens and then can set up and go and chase after as a drumming. It's pretty wild. I mean,

[01:10:14] the CNN article that I read, you know, communication is difficult right under water. It

[01:10:21] takes a special, either it takes a lot of power or it just doesn't work. So

[01:10:29] at some point we've kind of maybe solved some problems there that they didn't want to

[01:10:33] talk about. We're using drones all over the place. I mean, look at what's going on with

[01:10:40] Ukraine with the use of drones on shore and in the water. They've got a water too.

[01:10:45] Pretty big naval winds there with little drones sinking very large Russian ships.

[01:10:51] And then, you know, they're using commercial and DJI private drones to drop grenades on tanks.

[01:10:59] And they're also delivering goods from Amazon. In theory? Yeah. Well, we talked about what was

[01:11:05] sail drone a few years ago, right? That's true. Yeah. A little different, different technology.

[01:11:11] But yeah, I mean, it's pretty soon we're just going to be sitting in our living rooms,

[01:11:16] watching the world go by on our drones. It's going to be like ready player one.

[01:11:21] Didn't watch it or read the book. Nerd. I read it last spring as I was painting,

[01:11:29] think I was painting Liz. And so I had like two weeks of standing and faring. And so I listened

[01:11:35] to ready player one. I listened to Dave Grohl's book, the storytellers listen to stuff, Tyler.

[01:11:43] Springtime is my like, I advanced my knowledge this year. Your choice of book is much better.

[01:11:50] Why don't we get audible sponsors? All kinds of stuff. Come on. Audible. This is the podcast

[01:11:56] you need to sponsor. I'm not sure how well I do know how we got from Charlotte immaculate

[01:12:03] conception to DARPA and the manta drones and the ghost shark. But it's all about sharks

[01:12:11] and rays, man. It's all about sharks and rays. This podcast card or we're all over the place between

[01:12:16] nude cruises and fake manta. We just, I, we cover a lot of ground on the show.

[01:12:24] We, it's funny because we go from something very serious and very knowledgeable. And like

[01:12:28] you're actually, you're, you're advancing your knowledge in the world with talk with Walt.

[01:12:35] And then we go down to lowest common denominator, which is nudity, I guess. And then Jerry basically

[01:12:42] go from Kin Burns to Jerry Springer in about 30 seconds. So true. So true. And then I think that

[01:12:51] puts a nice little bow on this time. I think that's, that's probably it for episode 87.

[01:12:57] Do you think that if you could get away with just wearing a bow,

[01:12:59] you could sit on the deck chairs if you were wearing a bow, because there's more cloth

[01:13:04] than a bow than a G string. I don't think I'm missing the point.

[01:13:10] Do you imagine just 2000 people waving through downtown Miami wearing bows?

[01:13:16] Well, schooners, naked people and rays. I think that about wraps up episode 87.

[01:13:23] Thank you as always for the support of the show. Please subscribe to around the

[01:13:27] buoy on iTunes and Spotify. It's free and who doesn't love free stuff? Also, if you like what

[01:13:33] you hear and how could you not, let's be honest. How could you not? Seriously? It's amazing. It's

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[01:13:42] You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook by searching around the buoy in either one of those

[01:13:47] sites. And of course, don't forget to look up Tyler Fields photography and ease passage

[01:13:52] boat rights on the InstaWebs as well. They are both great follows. That's it for episode 87

[01:13:58] for Tyler Fields. I'm Carter Richardson and this is Around the Buoy.