Ep. 93: Sailing with Erica Lush

[00:00:17] Welcome back to Around the Buoy, broadcasting from the East Passage Boatwright Studios. I'm Carter Richardson and I'm here with Tyler Fields of Tyler Fields Photography. Tyler, let me get this straight. It's gorgeous out. Baseball's about to start. My son just went down with the flu. I am recovering from a chest cold. I think it might be springtime, buddy. Is that what this is? That is truly what this is. Yeah.

[00:00:46] I didn't get into baseball until I moved out here to the East Coast and I got in at a really good time. There were some really good years for the Boston Red Sox, but it's been a struggle the last few years to get behind this team. And even in spring training, they're a bit of a dumpster fire. It's spring training is a dumpster fire. It is a dumpster fire. Don't worry about spring training.

[00:01:14] But let it be known that by the time this episode comes out, this episode probably is going to come out right around opening day. There will be entertainment for the next 162 days. It's or about, let's say 180 days every single night or day. It's glorious. It's absolutely glorious.

[00:01:37] I, I can be forever hopeful. I can, I can be an optimist, but I think I don't know if they're, if they're going to have great success this season. I think I'm going to go into a Cubs game next month in Chicago. And it's the best time. I'm looking forward to that, but I'm, I'm having a tough time getting behind the socks. It's just, it's going to be a struggle.

[00:02:03] When I was on my, uh, folks, my bus trip around the country, seeing a baseball game in every stadium stopped at, uh, Wrigley and saw, obviously saw a game there. And, uh, even, I mean, this was 24 years ago that I did this, but they didn't, they still didn't have a jumbotron. So there was no replays and you had to concentrate on what was going on. It was one of the most pure baseball experiences I've ever had.

[00:02:32] It was so awesome. Other than my very good friend, Matthias, I think you're the biggest baseball fan that I know. And I find it really unfathomable that you have not watched rookie of the year. We've gone over this a couple of times, Tyler.

[00:02:57] I am going the over under on how many times I'm going to say funky, but loving at this game. It's going to be 30, 30 over under 30. You can't make me laugh. Tyler is still, I'm still recovering from this chest cold that I got. And I'm, uh, then that makes me cough, but that's really good to know. So you just say funky, but loving. That's funny. That's funny. I, I will.

[00:03:27] Now that I have a son, my son's 11. He'd probably love that movie. It's right in his wheelhouse. I was just too old when it came out, Tyler. That's all. It's great. Angels in the outfield is another one. I think that you've poo pooed every time we've talked about it. Cause I was like, I was like 20 when that movie came out. It doesn't matter. It's a baseball movie. Like he's, he's too young to watch major league. He's too young to watch bull Durham. Um, the, where the field corn grows, whatever that movie is. I've never watched.

[00:03:56] I can't get behind, but rookie of the year out. Sandlot out. Angels in the outfield. You've not watched. Uh, um, uh, God, I just, we've talked about this recently. I am out. Field of dreams. I'm out on Kevin Costner. Really? Untouchables. Wow, man. That's a great movie, but I can watch it because of Sean Connery. Oh, that means water world is out for movie night. I haven't been able to eat an orange since I watched that movie.

[00:04:32] You're killing me, Tyler. You're absolutely killing me. That's really funny. Um, well, Tyler, our listeners did not, uh, tune in and download this episode to talk baseball. Uh, they might, you don't, we don't know that. We don't know. We find our baseball conversations more entertaining than our nautical ones. I can, I can imagine that's back.

[00:04:56] It's very possible, but given the, um, the grouping of like all my employees at East passage, all the guys that work at East passage, not a single one of them is a sports fan at all. Meaning like no sports. Like they go home on a Tuesday night in the summer. I'm 30% of your employment and I'm a sports fan. It's March madness is happening. Are you watching that? No, but that's basketball.

[00:05:26] It was at sports. That's football. This is like soccer, sometimes hockey. This is like the Holy grail. This is the holiest to high holidays in, in sports is the first, the first week, the first four days of the tournament. I just, I can't get behind basketball either. I don't know why I just can't do it. And so that's why I'm saying, I don't think our listeners are big.

[00:05:51] If I had $7.1 million billion dollars with a billion, I wouldn't buy the Celtics. Well, you Tyler, I was going to, I mean, it's a little bit of a deep hole. So for those who are outside of the Boston area and don't really care about sports, which again, I'm most, I think might be most of you, the Boston Celtics just sold for 7.3 billion with a B dollars.

[00:06:17] And I will say to you, Tyler around the buoy is very lucky that my bid of $500 did not get accepted by the management team at the Celtics. Thank goodness, because that's our operating budget for the next decade. Yes. Your sponsorship did not work out like we hoped it would. It did not work out like we, I'm going to leave that in, but I'm going to bleep out

[00:06:44] who it was to ensure that we never get another sponsor again. Big time, big time, big time. It was carnival cruise. Well, Tyler, again, let's get back on track here. My friend, let's get back on the right tack. We'll even go with that. We'll even go with a sailing metaphor or let's get back on the PIM. If I go back to my Navy days and let's talk about, let's talk about him.

[00:07:14] It's projected intended movement. I think it is. It's like your path that you want to be going on your, your track that you want to be going on. All right. Well, you guys have had a rough rough run recently running into stuff. So maybe we should pay attention to our PIMs a little bit more. We should.

[00:07:36] So we'll be talking about that and what, what she's up to after finishing her historic and monumental race. Gosh, it was last January. That was a little over. It was about a year ago that she finished that. It seems forever ago. Yeah. Um, and then what she's also doing next. So, uh, but before we get to those news, news items, uh, on the heels of Cole Brower,

[00:08:02] winning the award, uh, we're about to be talking to another up and coming American female sailor who is looking to make a splash in the sport that has seen few Americans and even fewer female skippers. Um, uh, just after this break, we're going to be talking to Erica lush. Uh, she is a local Rhode Islander lived, uh, grew up in Jamestown and she's now overseas training. Um, getting ready for hopefully is a successful campaign in the solitaire to figure out and

[00:08:30] then eventually making it onto the Vendee globe. So it's going to be an interesting talk with her. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. I think she's going to probably become my daughter's new favorite sailor after this interview. So it's going to be, it's going to be exciting. All right. We'll be right back after this break and we'll talk with Erica. Go offshore.

[00:09:05] So sailing has long been dominated by the French was 65% of the skippers on the starting line for the Vendee globe, the pinnacle of the sport flying in the tri colors. And in a sport that is traditionally sailed by men making inroads as an American woman can be extremely challenging, but those barriers are not stopping Erica lush with countless hours at sea with legends like Tracy Edwards and Liz Wardley. The local Rhode Islander is now over in France training for the solitaire to figure out a multi-stage solo race.

[00:09:34] That has been a feeder race for the Vendee globe. We are fortunate to be joined by Erica. She has some downtime before her next training race to talk about her experiences that got her here and what's next in her pursuit to sail around the world. Erica, welcome to around the buoy and thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. Well, to be here. Cool. So you grew up in Rhode Island, sailing on Narragansett Bay, but in sailing and more specifically offshore sailing is something that's in your blood.

[00:10:01] Tell us about your dad and his influence on you into getting into sailing. Yeah, both my parents learned to sail as adults. So they were really passionate about that when my brother and I were growing up. So they really gave us amazing opportunities to learn to sail on not only through the junior programs available in Narragansett Bay, but also on our small keel boat, which we would take for a week at a time every summer with a bunch of other kids and other boats kind of

[00:10:30] in an adventure style cruising. So you'd go into the islands in Rhode Island Sound and Vineyard Sound and go have an incredible time. So it was sort of that, the same elements of my dad's solo sailing adventures in before I was born in the seventies and eighties, he carried into our childhood by bringing those little adventures into our summers. Your, your dad's solo sailing in the seventies and eighties.

[00:10:59] That was like kind of the early, the, when it was really starting to gain, um, importance and also gaining some influence. What did you, what did your dad do, uh, solo? Yeah. So the seventies and eighties were an interesting time for solo sailing, especially in the U S because there was a huge, um, just grassroots momentum and interest in this crazy discipline. And so my dad wasn't a sailor growing up, but he, I don't know how we originally heard

[00:11:29] about this, but he was living in Michigan at the time and decided he thought he'd go sailing up a try, built a boat in his backyard and sailed it across the Atlantic solo to see if he liked it. Um, so it was a pretty insane, um, you know, amount of effort and risk involved in finding out if you like something. He also couldn't swim. So, um, an added element of going offshore alone at a time when there was no GPS is, is

[00:11:58] quite mind boggling, but it certainly is an inspiring kind of mindset to go in, you know, chase something that you're interested in and see, see what happens. A lot of extra motivation to make sure that that boat's strong if you can't swim. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so he went on to do three all-stars and he competed in the first BOC around alone race, which he was not able to complete.

[00:12:23] He actually has both sunk in the Indian ocean after a pitch falling in a storm and he was rescued at sea. Wow. Wow. That's, we'll get, we'll get you on another episode to talk about that, but holy cow, that's incredible. Maybe I have him on. You know, I've always had, we've talked to obviously a bunch of sailors and I've always, I'm always amazed by stories just like that, that I didn't really know how to sail. So I built a boat and I headed across the Atlantic with it. That's, it's really, it's inspiring.

[00:12:53] And I think in today's world with GPS, I still think it's a little, um, what's the right word. It's just an incredible feat to think about doing and accomplishing. Absolutely. It's a bold, you know, endeavor for anyone. And especially, yeah, it's an added element when the technology is not there. And, but, um, yeah, there's something, you know, really special about crossing distances and oceans on boats. It's kind of captures the imagination.

[00:13:21] I think, I think a lot of us, when we start thinking about long distance sailing and offshore sailing, there's a, there's a bit of a, a romantic idea behind it of this, you know, champagne sailing distant islands. And, you know, we can all kind of trick ourselves into believing that that's what it's going to be like, but there's gotta be some benefit for you growing up with somebody who has kind of had that process

[00:13:50] and then lost the boat in the Indian ocean and knows the reality of it. There's, there has to be some sort of benefit for you and, and having a little bit more of a grounded understanding of the realities of life offshore. Yeah. It's, um, this, this may be a tangent, but I think it's, it's funny at least, um, that I, you know, how in home goods stories, they have these printed, you know, images of something that looks pretty. And they put a quote over it. Yeah.

[00:14:20] I found one once I still regret not buying it. It was a picture of a boat at sea with an empty horizon. And the text over it said, I'd rather be lost at sea, which is such a bleak thing to wish upon someone like that. That means you're probably going to die slowly. Um, but, but yeah, so it's a funny thing. There is a lot of romanticism attached to sailing across oceans.

[00:14:43] And of course the reality, for instance, last week bashing up wind and 30 knots, it's not so romantic, but, um, and you know, when you're cursing yourself because the autopilot failed or you've just crashed, drive or, you know, whatever happens to you and the reality of, of going offshore, um, it's never as, as beautiful and pretty and romantic as the idea, but there's a huge, there's a, the reality of it is that there is a amazingly.

[00:15:13] Inspiring and empowering aspect of offshore sailing that you don't dream about. It just, yeah. After college, you came back to Newport and jumped right into the iconic 12 meter fleet. Uh, but it didn't take you too long before you started looking offshore. And in 2019, you received a call from Tracy Edwards with an invitation to join the crew of maiden. First, how does a phone call like that even happen? Hi, my name is Tracy. Do you want to sail around the world?

[00:15:41] Like it's, it's a wild thought for me to have. Yeah, it was, um, it's wild in two senses. One, because I had no idea who Tracy Edwards was at the time. Does Tracy know that? I'm not sure if she knows that. But I basically learned about maiden reading her autobiography on board maiden crossing the Indian Ocean.

[00:16:03] Oh, it was a bit of a, somehow, just the timing of my generation and just long enough after Tracy's Whitbread that I, it wasn't in the news. But when I was in college, SCA came to Newport and, um, so they were saying, you know, we were the first all female team. So I missed the part about Tracy being actually the first all female team, um, to go around the world in a crewed yacht race. But, uh, yeah.

[00:16:33] So that was the funny thing. But, um, and she didn't say, you know, would you like to sail around the world? But she was looking for a delivery crew at the time to sail from Greece to India. And I have a, that's a side note of a strong connection with, um, some close friends in India. So I was thinking, oh, great. I'll sail this boat to India and get off and spend some time with my friends and then go home. And in fact, I got off in Australia, but, uh, and continued with them on and off for five years. But yeah.

[00:17:02] So the fact that the call from Tracy came kind of out of the blue was a bit of luck. It, she was, um, she was actually trying to reach a friend of mine, Laurel Caudet, who lives in Newport as well as a yacht captain. And, um, Laurel wasn't available, but knew that I was. And so I was next in line on the phone call. I think I read somewhere that you had part of the, the deal was you had like 48 hours from the phone call to get to Greece. Is that true? Yeah.

[00:17:31] And it's, yeah. So often in this sport, in this industry, just being available can, can you make you very lucky? That's, that's for sure. So for our listeners, you don't necessarily know all the ins and outs of the maiden program. Uh, talk to us about it. What, what, what was their mission? So maiden has a mission to, um, take on this huge challenge where 2.3 million girls in the world don't have access to an education.

[00:18:01] Um, so that was, it was really a two part, um, two part mission. One was partnering with charities as an effort to, to mitigate this huge education gap for girls around the world. And then the other was of course the women in sailing side and trying to provide more opportunities for women to get experience offshore in a positive environment.

[00:18:25] Um, which was much easier to create with an all female team because a lot of the problems that come up, come up in mixed teams and just these embedded sexisms in our sports. So, um, we went offshore with over a hundred women in a few years time. It was quite amazing. They came on with us either to cross an ocean or for a, you know, overnight leg anywhere in that, in that range.

[00:18:50] And we also raised quite a lot of money for charities that were working on specific barriers to girls education. For instance, one of them was installing wells in communities and then also teaching the community how to maintain that well. So it would be kept up for a longer period of time than traditionally happens with those types of philanthropic efforts.

[00:19:12] And the reason for that is because in that area, women and children or women and girls are usually tasked with, you know, walking miles every day to collect water for the household, which was preventing the girls from getting an education, which is something we really don't think about in the first world countries we live in. But, uh, it's a pretty concrete barrier. You have to go collect water. Maiden had some success obviously, um, in the, in the whip bread race, but you've also recently had some success with the program.

[00:19:42] With the ocean globe race. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, we raced around the world again with an all female crew in the ocean globe race, which just finished, um, about one year ago. And we became the first all female team to win a race. So Tracy set the first major record to be the first all female teams to race around the world. Um, and then we, we hope we made her proud by, by winning as well.

[00:20:10] I saw some photos of her. She looked like she was having a pretty big smile there. So I think you guys did an incredible job. It's a really nice round circle. You spent, you spent four years in the program. Look at yours or kind of take a look at yourself on the day you arrived to Greece and the day you came in, uh, finishing the ocean globe. What kind of experience did you gain?

[00:20:37] Obviously like outside of the thousands of nautical miles that you traveled, but what talk to us about what experience you gained from that. Yeah. Um, just a caveat is that I only was with them for this up in ocean legs. I was an alternate for the race cause I was trying to set up my own. Yeah. I don't think that's an only statement. I think that's, uh, I think that's more than incredible enough. Yeah. It's a Southern ocean. It was a huge opportunity. It's a Southern ocean.

[00:21:05] But just to say, you know, there's a huge team of girls behind it. Of course. Yeah. And they were in the Atlantic legs, which are quite difficult as well. But, um, yeah, the difference for me between the beginning and end of my time at Maiden is, is super interesting because the first, um, when I first joined, I was a few years into the industry and I was experiencing a lot of resistance to me working on deck. I had my first break kind of on the 12 meters.

[00:21:32] I, I, um, was lucky to find a mentor in Mike Patterson who manages Intrepid. And he, you know, he was my first mentor in sailing and he'd started to teach me to drive the boat and give me chances that I wasn't being given. But besides Mike, I was facing a lot of adversity in, um, finding roles on deck. Some yachts still won't hire women on deck even today, which is a bit nuts.

[00:21:58] Um, and a lot of, just a lot of challenges as a woman. And so I was starting to internalize a lot of these beliefs that, oh, I shouldn't be doing this role. I shouldn't be doing that role. So stepping on board Maiden in 2019 and, you know, we'd make a call to do a sail change and they'd say, okay, who wants to jump the halyard? I wouldn't stand up because normally I'd get laughed out of that position, um, on a, on a standard mix crew.

[00:22:23] And so seeing the girl next to me go up and jump the halyard, um, was a, a real moment of realizing, okay, hang on. If she just did that, I can just do that. Um, for sure. It's just a matter of how far you bear away and, you know, that your, your form and practice. And, um, so I think a lot of my first experiences with Maiden were realizing how much I needed to unlearn to move forward in the sport. And it was a great atmosphere to do that in.

[00:22:55] And when I rejoined the boat or yeah, when I rejoined the boat for the ocean globe race, um, actually I had been knocked down again in a previous, in a, in a job just before that. Um, I, I thought I had positioned myself to be learning a huge amount from a technical team.

[00:23:13] And I just had a horrible experience with the, with the team, not being challenged, being, um, it's just a classic situation of the people in leadership positions expecting very little of you, um, which is no way to grow. So when I rejoined Maiden for the Southern Ocean legs, you know, what a difference in environment to be able to go and join a team of, of all women and take on one of the biggest challenges and offshore sailing.

[00:23:42] And, you know, throw everything you have at it. It's a completely different way to experience the sport. You have such an incredible result too. Yeah. We're pretty proud of the result too. Yeah. So that was a great transition for me, you know, twice I'd say Maiden kind of kept me in the sport in a, in a really meaningful way. Did being involved with that program give you a little bit of confidence, not just in the sailing aspect, but in the logistical like organization aspect to start spearheading your own campaign?

[00:24:12] Yeah, there's definitely similarities and differences, but, um, with Maiden, of course, by going around the world, we were dealing with logistics in so many different countries and cultures. So I had a lot of experience sort of navigating that because usually it was us, the girls on the boat that were also maintaining the boat as we went around the world. So, um, we had a lot of experience with the logistical side of that, but from the partnership side as well, which is really important to me going forward,

[00:24:40] because I'm seeking corporate sponsorship for this campaign. And I'm trying to use that as a way to make a high level of sailing more accessible to Americans, um, and women, because at the moment in the U S without corporate sponsorship, you just have to, um, you know, have deep pockets or, or be in the right place. But, um, the business and partnership side of it shows a lot of potential for helping people.

[00:25:07] If they can put on a business hat and be a bit savvy about, um, these kinds of agreements, then it's possible for anyone to reach a high level in the sport. So, um, Maiden, the partnerships we had both with charities and with, um, our primary sponsor during the second world tour was great exposure to learning about the different things that, um, that sponsors could be looking for and the kind of ROI you can deliver to them and how to execute that.

[00:25:37] I would say also with Maiden, the, the fact that you were getting out into the communities as well, and you had all these speaking engagements that you were doing. I remember, um, I was at Jane Pickens when they showed Maiden on, and you were, uh, you were there emceeing the event and, you know, introducing Tracy Edwards, but that kind of stuff where you're putting yourself out there to talk about a program, to really find those corporate sponsorships. That must've been a huge help. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:26:05] And I don't think about that every day, but it's so true. Like I, when I'm speaking to people I meet in person, I, I, I'm a bit introverted. I'm kind of shy, but I, thanks to all that speaking engagements we did with Maiden, I'm pretty comfortable on a stage. It's completely different from, um, oral. So that's, you know, I gave a couple of talks this fall for my own campaign and I was so glad to have that in my wheelhouse that I could speak, um, fairly comfortably.

[00:26:33] And I was like, I'm sorry about complex topics in front of the crowd. Thank God. As if Maiden wasn't enough to get you inspired to do a deeper dive into offshore sailing, you were also a mentee in the Magenta Project. Tell us about the Magenta Project and how does it help you and women pursue their goals? Yeah. Magenta Project.

[00:26:54] It's so interesting because Maiden and Magenta have separate approaches to, um, helping women in the sport, but they're both super valuable. And the Magenta Project is specifically a mentoring program. So the heart of their program is that a prospective sailor applies, gets accepted, and they become, they enter a 10-month mentorship with a professional sailor or someone who has other ways to help you reach your goals.

[00:27:23] So not, um, every mentor is a professional sailor, but, um, every mentor can help you get closer to your goals, whether they're a coach or a sailor, or they work in media or. They're going to have different pathways within Magenta, both for inshore pathways, offshore pathways, STEM subjects, and media management and foiling.

[00:27:45] So as this, um, organization has grown and grown, the opportunities that exist now for women in sailing, it's, um, it's actually incredible. And, um, a few years ago, I, I joined a team, um, and we had a couple of young Canadian guys working with us for a couple of weeks. That's sort of an internship opportunity for them. And one of the guys was complaining that, uh, man, if you're not a woman, it's so hard to get a job on a boat. Get out.

[00:28:16] Which is exactly the kind of complaint we want to hear. So, yeah, so Magenta not only provides these mentorship experiences and partnerships, but they've also worked with the Amoka 60 class to provide internships within the shore teams of these teams. And there's also both maiden and magenta by nature of the women who have gone through these programs. We have huge networks now.

[00:28:43] Um, you know, hundreds of, of women all over the world. I can rock up to most ports. And if I need something, I either know someone there or I know someone who knows the port. Um, and it's an incredible resource. Who'd you get paired up with as your mentor? Yeah, of course. My mentor was Sharon Ferris Choate. She's a New Zealand woman. Um, a lot of people don't know her name, but she's done, um, most challenges in sailing. She, um, you know, she's raced around the world.

[00:29:13] She's, she's skippered a, I think she's skippered a sail GP boat at one point. Um, she is really an incredible woman. I think she'd like to do a Bondi globe as well, but, um, yeah, anyway, so Sharon was my mentor through that. And then I later got to sail with her on maiden. She came on board a skipper for like more than once. So, um, That's very cool. Very cool partnership. A nice, uh, bringing it full circle. Yeah.

[00:29:42] And you know what Sharon really taught me through Magenta was that, um, you know, there's one thing to, to set a big goal or, you know, well, what are your dreams? You set a goal, but then to break down a big goal into smaller goals, not just that you can accomplish in a year, but that you can accomplish in a day.

[00:30:01] So it was breaking down goals into actual concrete steps that are attainable that I hadn't really thought about breaking goals down that way before, but it was, um, a very, very powerful takeaway. It's because I, that's a really smart thing to do because it's difficult. If something is two years away, it looks like the, you know, like the, something that's way too big.

[00:30:29] You can't bite off to start think about how to do it. And if you make yourself small steps, small goals, the next thing you know, you're, you're there. That that's quick. That's really, uh, really smart. There's a Rhode Island sailor, Jesse Fielding. He's done the solitaire before and he, we were talking about my campaign last fall and he said, you know, Erica, how do you eat an elephant? Yeah, exactly. That's what, how do you eat an elephant? Yes. Yeah. One bite at a time.

[00:30:55] So it's a nice, uh, well, gruesome image, but funny concept. You recently teamed up with Tim Kent and have been competing both here locally and internationally. First off, who's Tim Kent and how did you two get teamed up? Um, yeah, Tim Kent is another American offshore solo sailor.

[00:31:18] He raced around the world and finished second in his class in 2001, I think, um, in the around alone challenge. Um, so he has quite a lot of miles under his belt and he's got a class 40 right now that he'd like to race around the world as well. Um, so I got teamed up with him again, a bit luck of the draw. A friend of mine was going to sail with him and couldn't, and I was next on the phone call.

[00:31:47] Um, so we sailed together a few years ago on the double, the inaugural double-handed return race from the Newport Bermuda race. Um, and we were, we got line honors on that race. It's hard to, you get pretty bad ratings with class 40s and handicapped fleets, but we were happy with our timing anyway.

[00:32:08] Um, and then, yeah, I asked him to sail with me last year in the double-handed offshore world championships because, um, well, double-handed it, you know, you really need to know your partner. So I had to be an American and I had to be a guy. So I chose the one American guy that I'd race double-handed with before. And, and Tim was happy to be there too. So we, it was cool.

[00:32:34] We had support from the performance sailing fund at New York Yacht Club, which really we couldn't have done it without them. Um, a couple of donors as well. And we were able to go over to Lorient, which is where I am now, um, work with a coach for a couple of weeks and then, and then do some racing. That must, that experience of the offshore world championships must've been amazing again.

[00:32:57] Cause as you said about, um, the one thing you already learned from like Magenta and Maiden is connections and people. That must've been a huge introduction to a worldwide network of sailors. Uh, what, what an experience that was. I know you didn't necessarily come out with the results you wanted, but the, I think the overall experience must've been, uh, must've been incredible. Yeah.

[00:33:24] I really think anytime you're able to race offshore in a one design boat, it's, uh, there's no better training experience because yeah, as soon as you bring handicaps into the system. And there's just too many questions of what if this, what if that, what if the other, but if it's all one design, um, the boats are matched pretty much. And, and you can just focus on the, on pushing the boat that you have and on the navigation choices. Yeah. I think it was late in 24.

[00:33:53] I think I saw on your social media that you're looking to become the first American woman to compete in the Solitaire de Figaro. Um, what made you set your sights on this race as a goal? Um, I have to admit, I have since found one woman. She's technically American. She was French born. Technically, technically. That's a total difference. No, but she is American. She lives in California, but, um, but yeah, the race had a slightly different name.

[00:34:22] And so I'd miss through my research. There'll be an asterisk next to your name. There'll be an asterisk. Yeah. I'll move it to third American ever though. Um, so it's not as though it's, uh, well trodden ground. Um, no, but I, I first heard about the Solitaire de Figaro in 2019 on Maiden through a skipper we had called Liz Wardley, who is a pretty big legend. Yeah. She's spoken with her. We have spoken with her. Yeah. I've heard your podcast with her. It was great, but she's, she's amazing.

[00:34:52] And I, okay. I don't think amazing does the correct, uh, does her justice. She's an absolute, she's an absolute beast is what you mean. Yeah. No matter what kind of vote you put her in. Totally. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, Liz is the beast she is. You can imagine her, um, rocking up to France as a young person. And maybe she was 20 or so.

[00:35:19] And, um, she got her hands on a Figaro and she competed in the Solitaire de Figaro. So it's, this has been a amazing, um, amazing opportunity for young sailors, often young sailors to, to cut their teeth on for quite a long time since the, since the outset of the Solitaire de Figaro. So, um, but Liz at the time told me about this race. I thought, Oh my God, what an incredible opportunity. How do I do that?

[00:35:46] And she said, well, I don't know that you can because you don't speak French and you're not French. And it's a very, very French thing. And Liz having grown up in Papua New Guinea, um, was at least fluent in French. So she was able to move over here and join the circuits. So it wasn't until 2020 or 2021 that Jesse Fielding and Francesca Klapsich went, um, to compete in the Solitaire under the State Street colors that I saw Americans competing in this, um, very French fleet.

[00:36:17] And then last year I, um, you know, still had this interest in doing, in racing in the Solitaire. This has been an interest for a long time. And I found a German girl who was competing in it for the third time last year. And I worked alongside her all last year to, to learn more about how the French system works and improve my language skills and get to know the boats from a more high performance perspective.

[00:36:43] Again, when you say improve your language skills, I think you might be selling yourself a little short because I think you already speak three other languages, right? Yeah, but not French. So, um, yeah, I have the framework to learn the languages at least that helps a lot. And there's some vocabulary and grammar similarities between Spanish and French, which is very helpful. But, um, yeah, it's still, you know, we finish a six hour day on the water and then we go

[00:37:10] into a hour and a half long debrief completely in French. And you can imagine by the end of it, I'm a bit cross-eyed. So outside of the, just the problem with the language barrier, what makes, what is the, so, well, first of all, what is the race? What, what makes up the race itself? Yeah. So the Solitaire de Figaro, um, takes place towards the end of the season. This year it will be in September and it's a series of races. So there's three races.

[00:37:37] They're each, um, about 600 miles long. That's about the distance between the port and Bermuda. Um, and sailors. So it takes the boats about three to five days to complete each leg. And you get back to shore, you have about two or three days before you set off again for the next one. So it is really a marathon of racing. And because it's one design, the boats are always quite close to each other.

[00:38:03] And the courses while offshore, they're also coastal, you know, you're never, um, you may be in the middle of the Bay of Biscay, but you're not crossing an ocean. So there's always more traffic than you would experience on a transatlantic and more hazards. And you're rounding, you're, you're going through tidal races between, um, pieces of land that we don't have in, in Newport to that extremity. You know, they're few and far between.

[00:38:30] So the, all of these factors make it very difficult navigation and very hard to sleep ever. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a huge, huge challenge of pretty much every way you, you turn it. But it's, uh, like I've said before, the one design aspect is hugely appealing because it makes it very easy to isolate what you need to improve on. Um, and that's, that's what I'm here for. I'm not here to win the solitaire.

[00:38:59] I'm here to become as strong a sailor as I can for the next challenge. I've seen you describe it as kind of the AAA farm system for offshore sailing. And so is this kind of a stepping stone to other races that you have goals for down the line? Absolutely. And the most obvious example, as far as solo offshore racing is the most famous one of all, which is the Vendee Globe and about 40% of this year's competitors did the solitaire first.

[00:39:28] So this is always been in, in the, in the, I think Americans may not know this, but in, in France, there's quite a clear cut tiered system. If you want to go into, um, big time offshore racing, you start with a mini transat boat, and then you go to a figure out and then you go to a class 40, and then you go to an Amoka 60. Not everyone does it exactly in that order, but the framework is there. Um, and I've got plenty of miles under my belt, so I didn't want to start in mini.

[00:39:57] I also like technology and menus don't use, um, any routing software. So Figaro was the most intense and cost-effective way I could find through this amazing framework to accelerate my own career. So you're, you just said you're in, you're in France training. What does training, uh, what is it like? What does it entail? Are you, are there just a group of you that are going to be competing and you guys stick

[00:40:23] together and you all race together and how long does this training last for? Yeah, I'm actually, um, coming up to the end of what I've, I've dubbed the training phase of my campaign and we've entered now the qualification stage. So, um, the first race is in just about one week's time. So my first solo race, but back to your question about the training is that throughout France, there are these, they call them poles. It's basically a training center.

[00:40:52] And I'm part of a pole called Lauren on Grand Large. And we have on the water since early January, we've had 10 to 15 boats out every day of training. We've got two coaches on the water with us in ribs and they just run drills. It's like, you know, we have this, we have similar amazing setups like this in the U.S. for dinghy sailing, but in keelboats, it's, it's unheard of. It's, it's incredible.

[00:41:18] Um, so we go out, like I said, for option for six hour days, we leave the dock, um, by 10 at the latest and, and yeah, we, we go and do speed tests. You do short courses, you do, um, drills for, for sale changes and peels and, and really push yourself against your, um, your fellow training partners. But there's also a very good atmosphere within the training center, even though I'm, I'm foreign

[00:41:47] and I've got a language barrier. People are super helpful to, you know, if you're falling behind or, or. You know, not understanding something people are usually willing to help. And that's part of the atmosphere of solo sailing as well, because every solo sailor knows how valuable it is to have a second pair of hands. So on the dock, you know, you hit the dock and have to hurry and put the boat away to go to debrief and people will pop over and help you flake your main and the things that are much easier with two people.

[00:42:15] We work together as a fleet to, to get there. I'm glad that there, there's a sense of camaraderie that it's not cutthroat. Uh, that that's good to know that that always makes it a little bit easier. What you're doing is very challenging. It makes it a little bit easier. Yeah. 2024 was a pretty big year for America's female sailors. You know, we've talked about maiden. Um, we talked to Sarah Stone with the, the Puig Women's World Cup and obviously Cole

[00:42:42] Brower made some news this year to be the first American woman to complete a solo circumnavigation. Have you had the opportunity to talk with Cole about that experience? Yeah, a little bit. Um, we're friends and we, we share a best friend. So we've crossed paths now in Newport. Um, and yeah, I've heard, I mean, I was offshore at the time that she was racing. Most of that time I was in the Southern Ocean at the same time as she was.

[00:43:11] So, um, I didn't, I wasn't following her social as, um, you know, the rest of the world was, but I'm certainly aware of it. And, um, the, the most, uh, her accomplishment in itself is, is incredible, but another, another really encouraging factor I found was how receptive the mainstream audience was

[00:43:35] to hear about her race because ocean racing in America doesn't have much, much draw to the mainstream. It's a bit like, no one has any idea of what you're talking about. And like questions are usually, what do you mean? Where do you like, where, where, where, where do you, where do you go to sleep at night? Like they don't know that you just, you know, keep going for what a watch system is. Um, so it was really cool to see that there is a mainstream audience in the U S that's interested

[00:44:04] in this sort of thing, because as I mentioned before, it's, um, I think sponsorship for sailing is, is the only pathway to allow, um, the average economic background sailor to, to reach, um, a high level in sailing is to be able to find the business side and, and create a sponsorship opportunity.

[00:44:27] And France is a, a very different case study because in large part, because the offshore sailing has captured the French imagination since Eric Taubberle did well against the British in the first all-star races that completely, um, like that, that was the, set the groundwork for the French powerhouse and offshore sailing that exists today was that, that national pride and inspiration in this adventure seeking sport.

[00:44:58] And Cole seems to have struck that chord with a lot of Americans. So it's very interesting to see that. And I'm optimistic that it has, um, that it has a positive implication for those of us trying to reach these high levels in the sport. Well, that, that leads into my next question. You've been sailing professionally now for just about a decade and you're following in the wakes of the Tracy Edwards, Don Riley's D's, and also Liz Wardley.

[00:45:25] Um, are you seeing results that makes you think that magenta and maiden are having an effect with women in sports in the, in the sport of sailing? For sure. Um, yeah, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to make, um, concrete metrics because what you experience, um, you know, is a personal experience and it's hard to know where everyone is.

[00:45:53] Um, we're definitely making good progress, but in 2019, there was a strategic review published by world sailing about the status of women in the sport and it wasn't good. Basically it was, uh, shedding light on a lot of the issues that I've faced and many of my peers have faced. And, um, yeah, so it's not a, you know, we're not done. Yeah.

[00:46:20] And there's certainly a long way to go, but at the moment there's more opportunities than I've ever seen before. And that's amazing. Well, as a father of a four year old girl, it's been incredible for me watching these doors open because I was able to bring my daughter down to Newport shipyard and see maiden on the dock. My daughter and I got to watch Liz row into Antigua together and having those things for

[00:46:49] her is, is huge. So I can't do the math off the top of my head, but let's say 15 years from now, you know, things are going to be available to her that aren't today. Um, and it's all because of sailors like you and programs like that. So, so thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Well, happy to be part of the chain, but for sure it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's really positive that, that we have, um, you know, these incredible programs now and we're making progress.

[00:47:16] So just got to keep moving that track, which is part of what I'm trying to do with my own campaign as well. I've, um, every time I have the opportunity to go sailing with another person on board, I try to take a, a woman with aspirations who's living over here. And, um, you know, I've, I've had quite a few, I've had quite a few women come training with me, which has been provided opportunities for them. And in about a week's time, I have a young American girl coming out to help me for the first race.

[00:47:44] And she's got a mini transat boat sitting in her backyard. And I hope that it provides a nice opportunity for her to learn about this amazing scene over here. That's cool. That's very cool. I can't imagine a tougher way to spend time at sea than on a mini transat, but what an amazing opportunity just to have one in your backyard. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Every time we talk to someone with, with these dreams of chasing, you know, offshore sailing,

[00:48:13] racing, one of the biggest hurdles is always the funding. And none of this happens without support. And these big challenges take big money. How have you found support so far? Yeah, right now I, I'm really grateful to be here because I, um, I had over 30 individuals come forward to support me in about two months time before I had to hop on a plane to make it in time for January's training session to begin.

[00:48:41] Um, so I have, I have huge amount of gratitude to those individuals who have gotten me this far. I've received a small grant from this, um, performance sailing fund at New York Yacht Club, um, again, so that's my second grant through them. And, um, I'm, I'm really hopeful that I can leverage this opportunity to, to be something bigger because it's, uh, you know, a lot of people have, have taken a chance on me and

[00:49:10] believed in me and, you know, thought there's a reason this is important to us. I've taken the fundraising route because, um, it was the only way I would make it here this year and I'm doing everything I can to leverage that opportunity to, to keep going. How can others help you get, you know, closer to the starting line? Are you doing fundraising efforts on your website? Where can people look? Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:49:39] I, um, there's donation links and information about other ways to donate on my website, which is lushsailing.com slash support. Um, so donations definitely help me go a long way. They're tax deductible through two different organizations in the U S and in addition to that, I'm definitely looking for corporate sponsors and I've got a huge list of different, um, you know, different activation opportunities that could be interested, interesting to smaller,

[00:50:08] big companies in the U S or in Europe. So, um, you know, I'm, I'm at the end of an email if I'm not offshore and I'm really looking forward to discussing this with more, with more, um, businesses and individuals. Well, your lists of accomplishments, um, are already incredible and you don't seem to be slowing down anytime soon. Um, how can our listeners keep up with what you're doing? Um, are you on social medias and, um, so they can follow how your races are going?

[00:50:38] Yep. Sure. Um, I have, I'm most active on Instagram, but I have a Facebook page as well. It's the same handle for both lush sailing. Um, and I have been sending out updates as well through a newsletter, which I will soon, maybe in April, I'll be putting onto my website as a blog, but that can all be found on my website, um, lushsailing.com. Very cool. I mean, it seems like you, it seems like you have so much free time at the moment that you could probably jump on that. Right.

[00:51:09] Yeah. That's why my website needs some updates, but hopefully after the first race, I'll be able to put a stab at that, but I really hope to share the journey with everyone, you know, whether they're contributing or not. I think it's, uh, it's for me, it's really cool to be here on so many levels and I just want to share the enthusiasm. Well, Erica, thank you. Thank you so much for your time today. Uh, it's a great story. Best of luck in your training. Best of luck coming forward with all the, your offshore racing.

[00:51:39] It's a really awesome to talk with you. Thanks so much for having me, you guys. It was a great chatting and, uh, hope to keep in touch. Sounds good. Thank you. Welcome back to around the buoy. Uh, a huge thank you to Erica.

[00:52:08] Uh, she's, I mean, insanely busy when we, when we reached out to her for the first time, she literally gave us like three days and a couple hours at a time to, to figure, figure out a time to talk to her. So really appreciate our taking the time. Um, I'm not a very good linguist Tyler. And so I can't, I, I've tried to learn French when I was a kid. Didn't happen. I can't imagine trying to learn another language alone, but then also trying to learn a language in a sport.

[00:52:35] That's so nuanced that all the different parts on the boat are really the, the, the, the, you can't get that kind of education from a textbook. You really have to be over there and learning with like, you know, on the job training. Yeah. It has to be like drinking from a fire hose. I mean, just the amount of information coming at you and the speed of which it is. And you said we had like a couple days and a couple hours in the schedule.

[00:53:02] She literally just got off the boat and she had just got done doing a, an overnight, um, practice race. I mean, she is extremely busy and all that included. I mean, it's a, it's a small race. It's not like a, you know, it's not a big world around the world race. So you don't have, you're trying to get sponsors. You don't necessarily have a PR team. She's doing so much of this stuff all by herself. I mean, she's got help. She's got family.

[00:53:30] She's got people involved, but so much of the boots on the ground, the talking to groups that talking to podcasts like us trying to raise money falls squarely on her shoulders as she's trying to then learn, you know, sail, learn how to sail these boats and do it, do it efficiently and, and, and practice. Well, like we talked about, you know, it's, she equated it to being triple A baseball before you get to the majors.

[00:53:57] So it's, it's not 26,000 miles around the globe, but it is still a pretty big deal for offshore racing and a huge step in the right direction. Um, and it opens doors to programs like the ocean race or a Vondi globe campaign or whatever, whatever direction you want to go after this. So it's, it's not nothing. That's for sure.

[00:54:26] It's, it's still a pretty big deal, but the hill you have to climb just to get to the starting line is immense. And she's doing an amazing job. Really cool. Now, really cool. So if you, uh, she's obviously looking for support, uh, for sponsors, for donations, uh, get on her, uh, website, lunch sailing.com, find her on Instagram, uh, find her on all the socials. And, uh, if you have the means to please donate to her cause, uh, I read it to talk about a

[00:54:56] little news in the outside world that's going on. Yeah. Well, let's talk about another East coast sailor. That's making some international news. Yeah. Uh, Cole Brower, uh, who we've talked about in the past, um, quite an incredible achievement. We were all captivated by her, uh, their global solo solo challenge, um, lap around the world. Uh, she became the first American woman to do a solo unassisted, um, uh, circumnavigation.

[00:55:23] And for that, uh, us sailing and Rolex just recognize her as 2024 is yachts woman of the year, which is really cool. And such what, what an award, what an achievement. Yeah, that's awesome. She's in a, she's in really good company with that recognition. Yeah. She, um, she just posted a, uh, a video on her Instagram, which I, I also, what's what she did is incredible.

[00:55:49] Um, I mean, is really, really, and truly incredible, but her ability to bring that trip to the entire world was even more, I think, influential on the fact that of winning this award, because she really put a different spin on what it's like to sail around the world unassisted. And it wasn't, it's not saying it was easy at all, but it just, it, it looked like for

[00:56:15] her, she was having so much fun throughout the entire race. I mean, there were some downtimes when the boat, uh, I did, did a pitch pole or it went all the way over. And that's when she broke a rib. There were some, definitely some dark times, but my God, she looked like she was having the time of her life out there. This was a really cool race to follow. The, the Volvo, uh, or the ocean races, it's no longer Volvo, but the ocean races did not

[00:56:41] have the fun factor that Cole was showing the ocean race footage looked like it was an absolute slog from dealing with the sound of the rigging, the awful experience with just the crew, the crew jammed on board. It just, it didn't look appealing where Cole's record of it or, um, you know, um, we're telling

[00:57:09] of that story had a little different taste to it. A little bit different taste. Yeah. It was, I don't know if the, the ocean race, they were kind of working off like the deadliest catch modern, the deadliest way of everything is a problem. Everything's a disaster. There's always, there's, there's always a problem to overcome. Um, she certainly faced tremendous challenges.

[00:57:33] Um, but she also showed a lot of the, I think the, uh, more enjoyable aspects of it. And it's, it's clear that she just loves sailing and she loves the adventure behind it. And she just did, she's, she sold the boat and just sailed it to either Australia or Tasmania with a new owner. And again, that was another, she documented it very well.

[00:58:00] Um, she kept up on the social media, but she just seemed to enjoy the time offshore. Um, yeah. And that was, that was very cool to see. Yeah. She, uh, not resting on her lords whatsoever. You had just, you said, so she sold first light, uh, and then she crewed it down to, uh, the South Pacific with, uh, can't think of her name right now. And that's killing me, but she accrued it with her down there to teach her about the boat, how to sail it and just, uh, get some offshore experience.

[00:58:29] And she also, in about middle of February, um, she announced that she got hired by team militia, um, as a co-skipper for this upcoming year. The team right now is, uh, getting ready for the, uh, ocean race Europe, which will be happening later on this summer. I think it starts in August, uh, starts in, and so she'll be on board for that. So, um, never, never a dull moment. Uh, congratulations to Cole and really wish her a good luck. Yeah. It's going to be awesome.

[00:58:58] Another great sailing event to follow. Look forward to it. Yeah. What else is going on Tyler? Well, did you hear the news from our friends at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum? Our friend Bruce was holding out on us. I did any opportunity to hear Bruce do an interview, uh, on TV or radio. I'm going to tune into the guy has got velvet pipes, just golden pipes. So just about a week ago, 10 days, the museum announced that their research vessel,

[00:59:28] the David Boyd had located another wreck long lost to history. Um, the Western reserve was a 300 foot steamer that sank in 1892. And it had been on, I think Bruce's short list for, for Rex to find, um, and, you know, stories to kind of questions to answer. And that was kind of one of the bigger ones. Yeah. I think we talked to him about it, maybe not during the interview, but afterwards, I think we talked a little bit longer.

[00:59:58] And this was one of the boats that I think he was excited to find. Looking back now, hindsight's 2020. They had found it a month or two before our interview and hadn't, hadn't sent out the press release yet, which Bruce. We'll give it to you, Bruce. You just met us that, that morning before. So I will give it to you. Well, the Western reserve, she was, uh, relatively new.

[01:00:23] She was only a couple of years old when she sank, but she was one of the first steel ships to be built for the Great Lakes. Um, and steel at the time was, I think some of the whalebacks that we, we talked about were, were steel constructed at that point. They were, yep. But yeah, they were the new coming technology. They were supposed to be the fastest, the safest, um, you know, kind of repeat all the things you heard about the Titanic, about being the fastest and the safest. Kind of the same, the same story.

[01:00:53] Uh, she had earned her name as the, the inland greyhound for, for speed. And she was, she was breaking records on the lakes. Um, her owner was one of America's first millionaires at the time. He'd earned all of his money in, in shipping, especially on the Great Lakes. And his name was Peter G. Mensch. Tragically, this was supposed to be somewhat of a summer cruise.

[01:01:18] And he brought his wife, his two kids, his sister-in-law and his niece aboard for a trip from Cleveland to Twin Harbors, Minnesota. And I mean, I, I don't know how many times Bruce talked about this, but weather on the Great Lakes is difficult. And in the fall, much like our friend Gordon Lightfoot said, is very dangerous. Um, the winds came early that, that year. We've heard that a couple of times.

[01:01:48] Well, a Gail caught up with the ship and within a couple hours, she split in two and sank, um, at a depth of about 600 feet. Hollywood couldn't have wrote a worse script. It just got worse from there. The family and the crew made it into two lifeboats. One of the lifeboats quickly capsized and sunk with the loss of most of the crew.

[01:02:09] The family and two crew members survived for another 10 hours in a lifeboat, making it to within a mile of a life-saving station. The deer park life-saving station only to be rolled in the surf and the loss of everybody, but a single crewman, Harry Stewart. Um, so that is 27 souls lost. One survived. Um, it's just a horrific, a horrific story.

[01:02:39] That really is awful. Yeah. I knew, I didn't know the story. I know obviously knew it went down, uh, but I didn't realize it wasn't like a cargo ship or wasn't like a carrying iron ore or something like that, that it was a passenger ship. That's, um, or like a private vessel. Really? That's really awful. Yeah. Just worst case scenario all across the board.

[01:03:00] This summer, the museum's marine operations team led by the brothers, Daryl and Dan Artel on the David Boyd located the wreck, uh, with side scan sonar doing a couple of passes. They located a wreck, did a couple of closer passes. And with the scans, they were able to take measurements, the shadow on the lake floor that gives them some numbers to work off and narrows things down.

[01:03:27] And on the distance, the, the overall length of the wreck, it's split into two and the stern is kind of crashed on top of the bow section, but they were able to get lengths. They were able to find some hatch locations and narrow it down. And then a little later in the year, they were able to send down an ROV and confirm it as the Western reserve. So, um, you know, they were able to, to provide some closure on that story.

[01:03:52] And there is still surviving family members, um, generations obviously later, but surviving family members that had reached out and thanks to the museum for, for their efforts. And, um, were you able to see any of the videos? I saw a couple of the videos, like the underwater where they, the, uh, the videos of the ROV going through. I did get to see a couple of those. Yeah. It is amazing how well that cold, fresh water preserves wrecks. Yeah.

[01:04:19] I mean, it's clear it's at the bottom of a very deep lake and it's been there for a while, but it is still ship shaped. I mean, you can tell that it was a ship. You can tell, you know, the masks are still there. They're broken, but they're there. The ship's bell is still attached. Um, you know, you can without any difficulty at all tell that it was a ship.

[01:04:43] I mean, you've had restorations recently that you've looked at that were in worse shape than the Western reserve is now after 132 years at the bottom of Lake Superior. Yeah. I was amazed as I was, you know, going through all the up on Instagram to help promote the episode.

[01:05:02] Some of the side scan sonar images were really, I mean, you just find the boat, break it in half and put it on the bottom of the sea and or a bottom of the lake. And that's what it looked like. It was remarkably intact and it looked exactly. It really, it, it's incredible to think of something falling 600 feet. Um, granted in the water, but still falling and impacting the ground.

[01:05:29] Um, it, and, and, and being, and still looking like that in that condition. It, it's wild. It is a wild scenario. Yeah. Congratulations to the museum. Um, they do some amazing work. And I know we talked, uh, after the episode a little bit about a few other wrecks that they, not a few, they have a long list, a few other ones.

[01:05:50] I think that they're focused on, um, that would be, would, it would be great for, for them to find some success in and, and, uh, answer a lot of lingering questions for a lot of stories out there. So congrats. They'll find them. They'll find it. It's just a matter of time, Tyler. Tyler. Well, big, a big bunch of lakes. The scale is immense. All right. As always, thank you to our listeners for the support of the show. Please subscribe to Around the Buoy on iTunes and Spotify. It's free.

[01:06:19] And who doesn't love free stuff? Also, if you like what you hear, please rate the show and leave us a review. For extra content on our episodes, you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook by searching Around the Buoy in either one of those sites. And of course, do not forget to look up Tyler Fields Photography and East Passage Boatwrights on the Incewebs as well. They are both great follows. That is it for episode 93 for Tyler Fields. I'm Carter Richardson, and this is Around the Buoy.